When you talk about individual athletes do you talk about times, scores, eras they competed in. It is tough.
As much as I hated the communist, they had some of the greatest athletes ever produced by scientists.
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They did have that one boxer who gave Rocky all he can handle back in the 80’s lol
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LOL yeah Ivan somethenoranother.
I will break you.
If there is one thing I have said over and over again its dont kill Apollo Creed and then take on Rocky in front of the Politburo. Nothing good comes from that.
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As a non Texan/Houstonian Coog it never ceases to amaze me the bias you guys hold towards Jordan. It’s as if you think admitting his greatness would somehow diminish the Rockets of the 1990’s. Those two things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
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Greatest Shoe salesman EVER.
Kidding, Jordan was great. Iconic brand and iconic image. He single handily ushered in the the apparel boom.
Was he the greatest ever? Debatable.
He wasn’t as dominating as Wilt. He clearly didn’t win at the level of Russell. He didn’t save the association like Bird and Magic. His airness didn’t fly like Doctor J.
He was iconic and he was great at being iconic.
The problem with comparing Russell is it’s just such a drastically different era. Like if you transported Bob Cousy from then to today he’d get worked by a lot of high schoolers now. Obviously you are comparing players relative to their era but when the sport doesn’t even look the same and the league only had 8 teams it’s hard to give someone like Russell the nod just because of their rings.
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True but in basketball pre expansion is viewed as easier. In every other sport post expansion is viewed as easier.
Very true, players like Josh Gibson, that never got a chance and untold others deserved better.
My All-Time OF would be Ruth, Mays and Aaron. Williams ( my fav ) is my DH as Hammer was faster and a better OF by the numbers. The Splinters numbers would have been incredible if he hadn’t basically lost 5 seasons while being The Real John Wayne
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The big difference is probably individual statistics vs. team success. Mathematically team success is obviously easier the less teams there are and team success is generally the bulk of any argument in favor of Russell.
Just in terms of eras, players get bigger, stronger, faster in all sports over time, but baseball in the 60’s looks kinda like it does now and eras are somewhat translatable. In basketball that isn’t the case at all.
Did you ever see Cousy play? Your comment about him being beat by today’s high schoolers is ridiculous!
I mean he would be over 80 years old lol.
Many of the older players would be great today. They would get better conditioning, food, competition etc.
Speaking about Rocky, how about the real Rocky? Rocky Marciano held the heavyweight title from 1952 to 1956 and is the only heavyweight champion to finish his career undefeated with a 49-0 record, with 43 KO’s.
This is a great thread with outstanding takes from everyone and cases to be made for a good number of players.
I feel Tom Brady is No. 1 over everbody that has played in the NFL, MLB and NBA.
No one in NFL comes close to playing in 10 Super Bowls and individually he’s top 2 all-time in every major passing category.
And with salary caps designed to limit sustained team success it’s incredible what Brady has accomplished. And at age 43 and Brady has never been surrounded with a lot of Hall of Famers.
Bill Russell was great but there were about 10 teams in the league most of his career and he played with numerous Hall of Famers
If I had to start my alltime NBA team my first pick is Magic Johnson, a proven winner.
For baseball, Babe Ruth the greatest player because he was also an outstanding pitcher. Willie Mays the greatest all-around player because he did it all - hit for power and average, run, throw and field. A real 5-tool player.
But best hitter alltime is Lou Gehrig. Check out his averages each year, not the career totals, even though they are great. Gehrig’s batting numbers are mind boggling.
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Emil Zátopek should IMHO be among the “greatest athletes”
Ted Williams was not too shabby and Dale Earnhardt was a pretty descent athlete . . . . .
Who was the pitcher who lost the most games? I guess you would call him the losingest pitcher of all time…
Cy Young. Sometimes greatness is hard to measure.
Williams was as good of a pure hitter as the game has ever seen. Plus he gave up several of his prime years to fight in not one but two wars. There will never be another .400 hitter!
Also I’m surprised that no one has mentioned Ali. He transcended his sport in a way that maybe only handful (if that) have.
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Excellent take. I grew up in the Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Ellis, Young, Holmes, Shavers, etc era…man that was an incredible era for Heavyweights. Ali beat them all. I believe he would have taken Iron Mike in his prime as well. He was one of a kind
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No, he’s way before my time. But I’ve seen his highlights where he was supposedly light years better than anyone else at ball handling and it’s not even the caliber of decent high school level today.
It’s hard to compare players from different eras in basketball. If you transported Jordan (who I did watch play plenty) from 1993 to today in a time machine he’s probably like Demar Derozan. If Jordan had grown up in this era he’d probably still be the best player right now, though. I’m good comparing guys to their peers at that time for the most part, which is why I think Jordan is well ahead of Lebron in the GOAT argument. But with 60’s basketball it’s just so, so far behind the game today that it’s really hard to compare between that era and now.
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By football player you mean Pele.
Not only is he the greatest football player ever he also did it playing on fields that are nowhere close to what they are today. He also played at a time when the players were not “protected” by the referees. Countless number of players made it a career by “breaking” opponents legs. This is also valid for the ball itself.
As far as American Football player Brady is right there at the top. But this is a debate that can go on forever. Joe Montana was undefeated in the Super Bowls that he played. Even with a “blown up” elbow he took the Chiefs to the AFC Championship. What about Jim Thorpe etc…the debate goes on.
Carl Lewis is also at the top. What he did over such an extended period of time is amazing.
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You are just being funny. Guys like Russell, Chamberlain, Big E, Jerry Lucas, Pistol Pete, Bob Pettit, Dr J, Connie Hawkins and many more could have been stars today.
And yes the great players of today like Jordan, Labron, Dream and others would have been stars in past years.
Don’t sell the old timers short. We might be comparing apples to oranges but a great player is a great player.
Your remark about Cousy not being able to handle today’s high school players is one of the silliest comments I have read here.
By the the ‘67-68 Cougar teams were just as good if not better than any team hooping today.
Unfortunately we had to face UCLA in the final 4 twice.
That Bruin bunch arguably is the best team of all time. I bet Alcindor and Hayes would fare well against high school players
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