Realignment speculation

Enough about “not adding anything to the small12 or we will never come close to uta” The facts are and the facts never lies is that uta and ou and other small12 Schools are scared shitless of us. Excuse my crudeness but enogh with this bs argument. The ou and louisville games were a clear indication of what we can do with very little and decent Coaching. They can fathom to even think if we get into a P5.
I ask everyone on this board a very simple question and here it is.
Is it a coincidence that U of H dominated the SWC when we first joined?
Think long and hard you little uta and ou that demean us. Given the tools like you have to be in a P5 we will dominate you beyond your worst nightmare. Yes, you will run scared to the mother ship, the ncaa and accuse us of stealing a loaf of bread. Your cowardice is pitiful.

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Your logic is a bit flawed. Every program ebbs and flows and there was a time rice fielded good football teams and other times Colorado competed for number one rankings. UH rocked the first four years of the SWC then crapped the bed at the end. I have no doubt UH would win big in a major conference but I also realize that UH would also suffer through troughs.

I am pretty confident that no one is scared of UH and don’t have the hubris to claim that we are denied entry because of fear.

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Think what you will, they know what we are capable of on the level field of play and don’t want to compete with that podsibility.

True, UH can and will do well in a P5, but to say it will be absolutely dominant is a bit much. The programs that will suffer most of UH were in the Big 12, are the likes of Ok St, which always get a few top level (not necessarily the cream of the crop, but top level) guys out of Houston.

With UH in the Big 12, or even another P5, more top level players are likely to pick UH over Ok St.

UT and OU will get the cream of the crop all across Texas, while UH will make it harder to recruit in Houston.

Of course this is just one piece of the puzzle that is keeping UH out of a P5. There are others, potentially even stronger pieces, such as opposition from networks, the Big 12 just wanting to play it safe for now and see what options are available when their current deals expire.

It’s very easy to blame UT for hating UH, or Big 12 being afraid of UH domination, as being the reasons why UH is not in the Big 12, but that’s being very simplistic.

True, UH is the most natural fit for the Big 12, but there are 4 other P5, that have also not added UH. There is no UT or Ok St blocking UH in those conferences. Many here have said that Pac and ACC are also likely potential landing spots for UH, so why havent they added UH? The answer is the same as that for the Big 12, they are all in a wait and see mode.

In the summer of 2010, UT wanted it both ways. They wanted to move to the PAC 10 and retain their third tier rights for a University network. Larry Scott and the Pac 12 presidents weren’t on-board with this since they had plans to launch their own set of regional, conference networks. So the administration at UT-Austin basically said “Ok, we’ll just stay in the Big 12.” since the Big 12 was the only league (and still is) that would allow them to launch LHN.

Fast forward to 2011 when the agreement for LHN was signed. That 300 million dollars was about one thing: keeping Texas in the Big 12 and thus a tier 1 property of ABC/ESPN. The downside was that they had to get more live content on the network than 1 non-conference football game in order to give LHN a chance at being financially viable. So the idea of airing conference games entered the fray. This was contrary to what the Presidents and Big 12 commisioner (Dan Beebe) agreed to which was that each school could administer 1 non-conference football game per year as that school saw fit. So A&M (and other members) had problems with the policing of the relationship between UT-Austin and ESPN (who was also the league’s tier 1 tv partner) by then-commisioner Dan Beebe. That was the reason that A&M pointed to when it walked out the door.

And Army used to win national championships. Rice hasn’t been ranked since 1961. Thats a real long ebb.

Exactly my point so I’m happy more people understand it.

As far as UT is concerned UH’s mean is the UH of the 90’s and 00’s so they have no fear of who we are and who we could be.

Believe what you will, if they have no fear, then why has there been a concerted effort to keep us at the G5 level, wake up.

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There hasn’t been a need for a concerted effort when UH has been its worst enemy.

Starting as far back as the breakup of the SWC when our AD had his head in the sand and didn’t want to consider the possibility that the conference would fold or plan to lobby for our inclusion in the big 12.

To keeping Helton for too long starting over a decade of atrocious athletics.

Not following the Louisville and TCU models of becoming very good for an extended period of time and doing what’s best for the school.

Or leaving money on the table from donors and corporations wanting to provide cash and having athletics ignore them.

Nobody was scared of TCU keeping recruits from dfw and nobody was scared Louisville would poach recruits from Florida.

As another poster said, no other conference came in wanting to add us so is Michigan or USC or FSU or Alabama scared, too?

It seems we went to School around the same time so you do know of our so called “probation” You do understand the impact that it had on our program. These probation were controlled by whom? You betcha uta and atm. uta and atm knew very early on the major threat that we represented and represent to them today. Argue all you want that is written history. Remember how Andre Ware was treated by uta and atm? They did all they could so it would not get the Heisman. Yes, they are scared that with given the same tools P5 inclusion that is that we will become a dominating force. Demographics do not lie. I grant you that our then administration was probably the worst in our history (historians please correct me) It is not a coincidence that our probation occurred at the times that it did. While others got a slap on the wrist we almost got the death penalty twice and a third time with our non inclusion into the small12. So Iowas State is more attractive than U of H? Our ratings, fourth biggest City in america, new stadium and a strong academia does not matter? Interestingly enough you can verify that OU, OSU rosters are filled with Houston area players. Coincidence for our non small12 inclusion? How many coincidences are there so far? I’ll ask you another simple question. Who controls the media? espn and fox I believe. All P5’s have a contract with one or both. uta has controlled the small12 from the begining. You know of the lhn contract right and with whom? atm joined the SEC. You do not think that atm put a veto from our inclusion as a pre-requisite? Is Vanderbilt more attractive than U of H? Oh that’s right judas came running to uta. You could say the best form of flattery is to poach our coaches. That is the best way to keep us down, quiet and start all over again. You betcha they are scared of us and our potential. Do not agree? Let us in the small12 and boot Iowa State to the BIG10 or West Virgina to the ACC and add another member.

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UH being its own worst enemy is an understatement.

The '90s, when I attended, were damaging to the school in general, not just athletics.

The current renaissance (Thank you Dr Khator!) shows the unique potential that UH has but Dr Khator has had to build the university back to prominence. Don’t know who the administrators were back then, but I feel we are recovering from the neglect and mismanagement 10-15yrs later.

I can understand why UH was passed over in '94. I can also understand how, under great leadership, UH is back in the conversation for realignment. Hopefully we can keep this momentum going both academically and athletically

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Thank you, any further communication appears pointless to some.

Your rant is rather difficult to read, but I’ll try to respond anyway.

  1. Whats in the past is in the past. All the complaints about how UT or A&M may have treated UH, mean nothing today. If they did do everything they could to block Andre Ware from getting the Heisman, it was mean spirited and very stupid move against a fellow conference member. But then the SWC was a hive of distrust, cheating, and backstabbing.

  2. Do you have any solid proof that UT and A&M were behind all the probations UH got? In those days, it seems every SWC program (incl UT & A&M) was on some sort of probation.

  3. SMU got the death penalty, and it killed their football program. They still haven’t recovered. UH “almost” getting the death penalty is not quite the same thing.

  4. UH not getting into the Big 12 was the result of a number of factors. These included lack of political support, belief that UT would for some reason look out for UH.

  5. You may want to read this: https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/08/16/big-12-expansion-oral-history-big-8-swc-merger

  6. Some quotes from the link:

a. Bill Cunningham (UT President at the time): “There were four or five forces that forced change. They had everything to do with Rice and TCU and Houston not being able to draw acceptable crowds. The death penalty to SMU played a huge role. SMU was potentially the school that we could have developed a long-term rivalry with.”

b. Throughout the early '90s, any talk of a Big Eight-SWC merger was just that: talk. Texas and Texas A&M had more attractive offers to explore, but as 1993 turned to '94, the merger began to look more appealing to the Longhorns, whose alternatives were dwindling. So on Feb. 11, 1994, the presidents of the 16 Big Eight and SWC schools and the commissioners of both leagues met at the Dallas-Ft. Worth Airport Hyatt to see if they could come to some kind of agreement to sell their television rights as a package.

c. ESPN did not want all the members. They wanted eight from the Big Eight and they’d take four from the Southwest Conference. Obviously, the two they wanted most were Texas and Texas A&M.

d. At the time, Bob Bullock was the lieutenant governor, and he was a Baylor Law graduate. The speaker of the house was from Texas Tech, and [Junell] was from Texas Tech. And then the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee was a Texas Tech person, John Montford.

e. The (chancellor) of TCU, Bill Tucker, he’s a class act, and he said, “Bill, I understand. However, we are going to compete at a level that will make you all want to have us at some time in the future.”

  1. Iowa State is not more attractive than UH, and neither are Baylor, TT, and KSU. But these programs are not seeking entrance in the Big 12. They are already in, and will not be kicked out (except maybe Baylor if their Title IX violations keep on going, and even then the likelihood is very small).

  2. No conference is going to kick out current members to bring in new ones. The only way some current members get left out is if a merger between 2 conferences takes place and some members do not get invited to the new conference.

  3. You are right, current sports media is controlled by ESPN and Fox. But, ESPN tying UT to the LHN is more about ESPN keeping UT in check, than UT keeping ESPN in check.

  4. A&M has no veto in the SEC. If the SEC wants to add UH, A&M will no veto. I doubt Alabama and Georgia will let A&M demands keep the SEC from doing something that the SEC believes is good for the conference.

  5. No, Vanderbilt (or Mississippi State for that matter) is not more attractive than UH, however Vanderbilt is already in the SEC, and the SEC seems OK with that. You may think that it makes perfect sense for Vanderbilt to be kicked out and UH added, but clearly SEC management and current members do not agree with you.

  6. Poaching UH coaches, worked brilliantly (at least on the field) for Baylor, not so much for A&M, and the jury is still out on Herman at UT. If you feel flattered that P5 programs poach UH coaches, good for you. But what has all that flattery got UH?

  7. The Big 12 will not boot anyone, particularly just to add UH. It does not have to boot anyone, it can easily expand anytime it likes.

  8. Why should the Big 12 boot WVU?

  9. Your entire argument seems to be that the Big 12 owes UH something, and must pay up, even if it means booting current members. So you want the Big 12 to change to accommodate UH. Good luck with that!

  10. The Big 12 owes UH nothing, UT owes UH nothing. If UH is ever to land in a P5, it will be on its own already considerable merits, and if any P5 management/leadership sees value added to the conference from UH membership.

  11. It does not matter how much we as UH fans are convinced that UH is a sleeping giant, with huge value and success potential add to any P5. What matters is how P5s view UH.

  12. I cannot take the trouble to verify that OSU and OU have a lot of Houston area players, but here are some more links for you on the matter:

a. Barry Switzer says 'Hell, no' to University of Houston joining the Big 12

b. Some Big 12 coaches don't want Houston, for exactly the reason you think - SBNation.com

  1. Some more history

“It was amazing how underfunded and under-peopled we were at the time,” Carr (UH Athletic Director at the time) said. “Texas was worn out carrying the SWC. DeLoss Dodds once said, ‘My people are worn slick’ from hosting so many championships. And he was right. There was an unavoidable (financial) draft between institutions.”

http://newsok.com/article/2865486

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ESPN didn’t want 4 schools and wasn’t really an entity that was demanding things like that at the time of the creation of the Big12. The Big8 was willing to take all 8 schools in the SWC. It was Texas and A&M that put their foot down and said no, it would just be the two of them joining.

Once Bullock got word, he threatened the PUF for UT and A&M and demanded that Texas Tech be a member. David Sibley, a Baylor grad and a member of the Senate Finance Committee, went to Bullock, who was also an alumnus of Baylor, and they worked to get Baylor included as well. The other four were left out in the cold and basically told to figure it out.

As far as who was turning UH and the other schools in, it was UT. They had members in the NCAA that they would filter information to and the investigations would start. Amazingly, UT was never punished even though they were doing the same thing that all the other schools were doing.

But, your point about us not being in the right shape at the time is true. Unfortunately, we had bad admin at the time and bad ADs. Nothing we can do about it now. Good news is that we have people in place that will do everything they can to get us where we need to be. Hopefully, it happens.

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Have you noticed how some posters on this board reduce themselves to using “rant” or other well chosen words when you do not agree with them? History and our current conference affiliation speaks for itself. Go ahead and keep using the local rag for your own source of undisputed unbiased information.
They remind me of other posters from another board. Could they be the same? You decide.
By the way tell us how you really feel about the PUF and uta attempt to “hijack” U of H local turf?
That is right it always comes back to uta and atm. History does not lie. You can try to ignore it, change it or even twist it. Good day.

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Well, firstly I called it a rant not because I disagreed with it, but because it was difficult to read.

Next, I didn’t follow the death of the SWC at all, and had no idea of the facts. So using google, I came up with the linked articles on the events surrounding the death of the SWC and formation of the Big 12, and quoted from them.

The point I was hoping to get across is that the formation of the Big 12 was not a simple process. Did ESPN limit the Big 12 to 4 SWC members? Well one article I found says that, and hence I quoted from it. If there are articles where it says that all SWC members were welcome but UT blocked that, I would like to read those.

Finally, what happened back then, has no bearing on what will happen in the future. We all agree that UH needs to get into a P5. How to make it happen is all that matters now. True UH and other G5 members are at a disadvantage, but there is space in P5 for at least 5-6 added members. UH has to make sure it’s one of those!

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The answer is we don’t bring anything substantial to the table as of yet. We need facilities ( which just now are getting there), we need fans in the seats and fans that travel, we need to be a brand that people want to watch. We need to build a brand and that takes time. Nobody cares about how many teams you’ve beaten if nobody wants to watch you.

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Truth is we are the third most popular college team in Texas behind only UT and ATM and tv drives the bus.

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When we start to encroach on UT and ATM’s popularity then they will give it serious thought.

We are ahead of Tech, Baylor, and TCU. We are in a good place as far as tv draw is concerned.

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