I want to point out one thing about Shylock, it is never used in a positive context. No matter if you wish to believe it isn’t an antisemitic trope or slur, it is never a compliment.
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Of course Shylock isn’t a character with a lot of positive attributes. In fact, I can’t think of a way you could cast Shylock in a positive light. One of the lessons of The Merchant of Venice is that you don’t unjustly victimize someone just because you can’t find any positive attributes about him.
The only Shylock I’m aware of is the Shakespearian Shylock. All references to Shylock are used to describe the Shakespearian character.
I think what you’re saying here is that you can discuss Shylock only within the context of The Merchant of Venice. In your opinion, it is inappropriate to draw parallels or find similarities from the Shakespeare play in modern life or other contexts. I reject your narrowmindedness. One of the wonders of classical art is precisely that it allows us to find universal truths and beauty. No one likes usury or an unscrupulous businessman. That’s why we find Shylock repulsive. And although we find Shylock repulsive, The Merchant of Venice somehow gets us to find Shylock to be a sympathetic character. Shakespeare shows us a universal truth that it is wrong to unjustly persecute someone merely because we find them repulsive. When someone today is described as a “Shylock”, that’s precisely what I think. Great literature has a lot to teach us, il Duce. Please don’t close that door.
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Please don’t describe a scheming female as a “Lady Macbeth”. Some people on this board would castigate you for being sexist or something.
No, if you call a person a Shylock, you’re not describing the Shakespearian character, you’re describing a person using the Shakespearean character as a point of reference. You’re at the very least doing so as an insult. The fact that you now know the character is an antisemetic trope, and you’re going to continue to use it to describe a person regardless - then you’re in the wrong. You’re using it as an antisemetic trope in that sense. (you’re absolutely u is considered an antisemetic slur or trope, and you continue to do so makes you in the wrong.
I guarantee you’re not making some grand literary allusion like you’re Dennis Miller on MNF. You’re not having some Shakespearean discussion. You’re likely using it as a negative epithet. Even still, lets say you actually are trying to allude to Shakespear in an honest sense - you have to know your audience and your context. If it is being received as an insult, and they know it is an antisemetic slur, then it is one. It will be clear that you’re not having a literary discussion, if the audience of your discource hears it as an antisemetic slur, then it is one.
Why you continue to stubbornly argue otherwise, just makes you (to use the vocabulary of Shakespeare) to be at the very least a lout, but more likely a knave, rascal, and cullion.
Now, assuming you’re married, if someone decided to call your wife a shrew - would they just be innoccently making a literary allusion referencing the character of Katherina in Taming of The Shrew, or would they be insulting your wife?
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I see we’ve reached this point of the argument
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Why even argue this point? He’s been told its antisemitic.
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It’s such a weird hill to die on. I can only assume it means he’s used it a bunch and being told it’s not on top say really shortens his coded vocab.
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Yes i can’t think of any time after the Merchant of Venive where Sylocks(jews) were prescuted for being replusive.
Prehaps history teaches a different lesson than the one you get from the play.
In modern parlance, a reference to Shylock rarely is a reference to his Jewishness. It is usually a reference to a loan shark or other unscrupulous businessman. That is clearly the context used by the President.
To the extent Shylock’s Jewish background is the primary reference to the character, it is to point out the injustice of antisemitism. Recall the video shown by CoogCheese.
I only said the only Shakespeare I’ve read was McBeth because I had to; I made no comment about characters or women or the play itself. I barely remember anything about the play; I read that in the 10th grade - 62 years ago. Don’t try to read anything into what I post except what I post.
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Red saying…
You mean people don’t know the entire work of Shakespeare and understand each play and character
So do you know how stereotypes work?
The Nazis used it this way
Shylock’s Shadow: Shakespeare’s ‘The Merchant of Venice’ and the Nazi takeover of theatres · Holocaust Centre North Shylock’s Shadow: Shakespeare’s ‘The Merchant of Venice’ and the Nazi takeover of theatres · Holocaust Centre North
The Nazi Party banned almost all non-German playwrights apart from Shakespeare. In fact, many Nazis admired Shakespeare because they believed his plays captured a ‘feel for racial purity’ [vii]. The Reich Theatre Chamber interfered with the production of several Shakespeare plays with the intention to promote Nazi ideology in theatres. The Merchant of Venice, most notably, was utilized to ‘enlighten people about the nature and dangers of Jewry’ [viii].
Did you read your own article, Cougardue? The Nazis censored The Merchant of Venice to remove Shakespeare’s message of the injustice of antisemitism.
“ Censoring the Bard
The Reich Theatre Chamber made ‘several proposals…in the attempt to render the play more acceptable for performance’ [xi] under the Nazi regime. The Chamber began by eliminating any lines that praised Shylock or portrayed him as a sympathetic character. It is believed that ‘over 100 lines were…affected’ [xii] by these alterations. According to Zeno Ackermann, the Ministry of Propaganda’s ‘most drastic change…was to delete…Shylock’s famous monologue in act 3, scene 1’ [xiii] in which Shylock addresses the hypocrisy of the Christian characters and demands to be treated with respect and humility:”
Yes if everyone would just read the whole play then they could understand Jews are redeemable and not just unscrupulous businessmen.
Those stereotypes are troubling in thenselves.
Do you find it troubling at all that the Nazi thought this was the play that made their point?
Is this the point here? That no Jewish characters in literature may have human flaws?
All humans have flaws. It is appropriate for Shakespeare to point that out. It is acceptable for Shakespeare to create a flawed Jewish character. Shhakespeare’s brilliance is he used that flawed Jewish character to point out the universal truth that it is wrong to persecute people for their immutable characteristics. It isn’t that hard, Cougardue. It almost seems your interpretation of the play is more similar to that of the Nazis.
Its not about correct interpretation of the play. Its about how the character has been used to push the stereotype of Jews in control of money. If the Holocaust isnt evidence of that going wrong, I’m not sure what will do it for you
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Got it. You share the Nazi interpretation.
I don’t, and I don’t care to.