Cougar History

[Coog64fan (Bill Alexander)]

Correct, CBY said this. UT said no Big12 if UH was included.

[92010Coogs (I took a lie detector test...No I did not)]

Stop spewing lies. Do you know better than an actual retired BIG8 A.D.?
uta put their breaks for any Houston inclusion into the BIG12.
uta purposely imploded the SWC.
Again, you know better than an actual BIG8 A.D. that was on the call when uta made all of these demands?
You have no limits.

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

There were people in the meetings and it was well documented.

Bullock forced the Aggies and Whorns to take Tech and Baylor with them.

I don’t mind him stumping for Tech, the Lt Gov should stump for our STATE universities which are a part of his exec branch. But he should have done the same for Houston.

By doing that for a dang CHURCH school instead, he essentially put the interests of CHURCH over STATE. For an elected official in the USA, that’s wrong.

And that move cost us MILLIONS of dollars over decades.

Stop spewing any LIES to the contrary.

Those are the well documented historical FACTS, regardless of whether or not you care to acknowledge them.

[SeenItAllCougar]

uhlaw97’s post is absolutely correct. There have been a number of published articles over the years that described how it all went down; and, yes, our alcoholic lieutenant governor Bob Bullock, who was both a Tech and a Baylor alum, caused many millions of dollars of future revenue and reputational loses to UH, a state school.

[92010Coogs (I took a lie detector test...No I did not)]

You, of all people know better than an actual BIG8 A.D.?
That same A.D. was on the call when uta started to have talks with the BIG8 knowing full well that the objective was to implode the SWC.
That same A.D. that describes how uta IMPOSED their will with the schools they demanded to have in the BIG12.
That same A.D. that fully describes that the BIG12 was a non starter if we were included as well as smu and tcu because uta demanded it.
You of all people know better than a BIG8 A.D.?
I could care less about articles written about it. An actual report of an actual BIG8 A.D. outweighs any article written about the creation of the BIG12. How uta imploded the SWC to serve their own and only interests at the detriment of U of H, smu and tcu.
The only reason why uta did not want UH, smu and tcu was due to recruiting.
When uta and okie bolted to the sec uta had one goal…again. IMPLODE THE BIG12, just like they did with the SWC. espn was on it too…one last mouth to feed and no more Texas based schools in a power conference. If this was not for Bowlesby threating a court order against espn the BIG12 will be dead today. Are you going to deny that too? History does repeat itself when it comes to uta.
uta should be persona non grata for every UH alum and UH fan.
One more time, this is not me writing it but this is an actual BIG8 A.D.
Am I going to believe an actual BIG8 A.D. or written reports? Truly mind boggling.
Enough already with your know it all. You do that with every thread.

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

That’s entirely separate.

That might explain why the SWC and Big 8 never merged, and/or why the Big 8 didn’t take everybody.

It does NOT explain why BAYLOR and Tech ultimately got taken, and we didn’t.

UT and aTm’s “will” was to leave by themselves, and not take anyone else.

Bullock FORCED them to take Tech and Baylor with them by threatening to cutoff state funding if they didn’t.

I don’t mind him bullying UT and aTm into taking Tech with them. As a state U and executive branch agency, he should look out for their interests.

But I DO mind him bullying UT and aTm into taking a dang private CHURCH school over the other STATE university and executive branch entity (Houston) whose interests he was likewise supposed to look out for as a leader in the executive branch

That’s totally unacceptable. It’s a breach of his fiduciary duty and a dereliction of his duties.

And it’s a move that ultimately cost us MILLIONS over decades.

I am sorry if you are IGNORANT of the history here, and of the facts.

But this is in FACT what happened. Again, there are literally BOOKS on the topic where you can read about it.

Your ignorance in this regard is YOUR problem, not mine.

Next time, with all due respect, do the research, and learn the history.

Until then, stop spreading lies by claiming anything to the contrary.

For now….stand down and stand corrected.

[92010Coogs (I took a lie detector test...No I did not)]

Now you are going on the personal route. You want to p.m. me?
One more time, law knows better than an actual, living person, an actual BIG8 A.D. that was in the middle of the soon to be created BIG12.
Coming from you law we are not surprised.
uta and uta alone is responsible for our exclusion, smu exclusion and tcu exclusion.
Yeah don’t forget about them too. Three biggest Texas cities excluded. Only an idiot would try to look elsewhere.

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

No, I don’t.

I’d rather OPENLY bust you out.

Here you tell other people that they are spreading lies, when, in fact, YOU were spreading lies over well documented historical facts.

Bullock pushed Baylor in over us.

PERIOD.

FULL STOP.

Again, stand down and stand corrected.

And yes, you were apparently ignorant of those facts, and needed me to school you on them.

Spanish: Entiende?

Persian: Fahmidi?

Japanese: Wakarimasu ka?

Engiish: Dig?

NEXT!!!

[92010Coogs (I took a lie detector test...No I did not)]

You still have no clues. Of course Ann Richards had a political clout but who was responsible, who decided for UH, smu and tcu exclusions from the soon to be created BIG12

Who wanted to have a 16 schools conference? The BIG8 did. Who objected to to that? uta, uta and at all cost. The BIG8 had to cater to uta and uta alone decided who was in and who was not. Only you law can’t understand that and what a recruiting area means.

UH, greater Houston area

smu and tcu greater Dallas Forth Worth area.

Do you even know how many NCAA DIV I players and nfl players come from both cities? By cutting off these two cities uta had a clear road to recruit. Only a three year old on a tantrum or you law would deny that.

By the way I was wrong, it was the former Kansas State President that spoke up and revealed the details for the very first time.

Here is the article for all to read:

"Jon Wefald picks up the phone from his Minnesota home, and seconds later**, the former Kansas State president poses a question.**

“Now what on earth would you be calling me for?” Wefald asks laughing, knowing the reason for the call.

College athletics is potentially on the verge of monumental change. The Big 12 Conference, a league Wefald was instrumental in building, has been vulnerable to dissolution due to conference realignment over the past year.

So if there was ever a time to jump in the time machine and look back at how the Big Eight became the Big 12 (almost the Big 16, more on that later) nearly two decades ago, it’s now.

Not many people know more details about that time than Wefald, who served two terms as the Chair of the Association of Big Eight universities from 1989-93.

He spares to tell the story of how the 12-team league was formed — a conference that seemed ideal, a grouping of schools Wefald thought would be together for a long time.

But before he begins to paint the picture of that time, there’s one last thing.

“You know, this story has never been written before,” he says.

Moments later, he begins to tell it.

It was 1990, and the landscape of college athletics would soon undergo a significant change. Arkansas left the Southwest Conference for the Southeastern Conference that year, and Penn State left its independent status and joined the Big Ten.

“The dominoes are real shaky in 1990,” Wefald said, reflecting back on that time period. “The dominoes were falling and I was concerned about the future of the Big Eight. It’s very similar to July of 2010, and now late summer, early fall of 2011.”

Wefald, along with Kansas chancellor Gene Budig and Iowa State president Martin Jischke, understood what was at risk if those dominoes continued to fall.

“That’s when I started thinking to myself, ‘OK, I’m the Chair here and I know there are two or three other Big Eight presidents that feel we have to get aggressive,’” Wefald said. "Otherwise what I was worried about was Texas would join the Pac-10 in 1990, kind of like the same thing we found last year and now. They’d be leaving the Southwest Conference and that would be a powerful force to maybe trigger Oklahoma into joining the Southeast Conference.

“And then Colorado, going all the way back to the late 80s and early 90s — there were people at the University of Colorado that wanted to join the Pac-10. They had that kind of vision for two decades.”

So a group of Big Eight presidents, led by Wefald, became proactive.

“We felt we had to get aggressive because if we don’t, there’s a good chance the Big Eight takes a big hit. It would create a real disturbance.”

Wefald, Budig and Jischke began to look at a partnership with the Southwest Conference, which consisted of eight schools after Arkansas’ departure: Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston.

“It was something we were willing to consider, and it was something we thought we could talk the other Big Eight presidents into,” Wefald said.

Fast forward to 2011, a time when 16-team super conferences are talked about daily, and this is where the Big Eight actually appeared to be well ahead of the game approximately 20 years earlier.

The Big Eight’s goal was to form a 16-team conference, with all eight of the remaining schools from the Southwest Conference merging with the original Big Eight of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, K-State, KU, Missouri, Iowa State, Colorado and Nebraska.

“We actually were pushing that very hard,” Wefald said.

The Southwest Conference presidents and Big Eight presidents happened to be together for a meeting of the national land grant and state universities in Kansas City in the summer of 1990. Wefald would call a meeting for all the presidents from the two leagues to attend .Twelve to 13 of the 16 presidents showed up.

A partnership between the two leagues was discussed, but University of Texas president Bill Cunningham shut down the talks relatively quickly.

“We were talking about the merger,” Wefald recalled. "After about a half-hour or 45 minutes, Bill Cunningham said ‘we’re not interested.’ They were the only one to say that. “It was kind of interesting even then, because without Texas, we thought, 'well we might as well conclude the meeting because Texas wasn’t interesting. So the meeting ended.” Wefald, still the Chair of the Big Eight, thought the passing of time could perhaps change Texas’ mind about a conference merger, so he let a couple of years go by.

Cunningham, the Texas president, was promoted to chancellor of the 15 educational institutions in Texas in 1992. Bob Berdahl would take over as the university’s president in 1993, and soon after, another meeting was called, this time in the hotel of the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport.

“We can’t tell Texas they’re coming up to Kansas City so we met at the Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport,” Wefald said, half joking.

Fifteen schools were present at the meeting, with Rice being the lone exception.

Southwest Conference commissioner Steve Hatchell and Big Eight commissioner Carl James were at the hotel, but stayed out in the hall during the meeting.

“We met for I’d say two hours and just had a discussion, a complete discussion on a merger,” Wefald said. "There’s 15 schools there and we’re kind of sitting on chairs, and after about a half-hour of conversation, I just said, ‘well, let’s just see who might be interested in mergering.’

“We’re going around the room and it’s one after the other ‘I, I, I, I,’ and ironically the last school was the University of Texas.”

Fitting that it would once again come down to Texas. There sat new president Bob Berdahl, pondering the decision.

“The 14 schools said let’s do it and we got to the University of Texas and Berdahl said ‘I’ve got to think about this, I’ve gotta take it to our board of regents.’ I just said to myself in my mind, ‘oh darn-it, it’s not going to happen.’ That’s just how influential the University of Texas is.”

Berdahl, regarded as a low-key person by those who knew him, then caught everyone’s attention.

“He just said 'if I had my way we’d join the Pac-10,” Wefald recalled. “He just said ‘look, we’re not doing well in the Southwest Conference and we play all our games in Texas except for a few.’”

Unlike today, Texas was struggling in the early 90s. From 1991-93, the Longhorns posted a 16-16-1 record in football while failing to make a bowl game during that time. In addition, their basketball attendance was waning significantly. In its 1988 men’s basketball season, Texas averaged just 4,028 fans per game in an arena that seated 16,231.

So Texas was seeking change.

“So we had 14 out of 15 that were saying ‘I,’” Wefald said. "So the Big Eight presidents decided we shouldn’t let this draw out and let’s try and get a conference call within two weeks because you can’t just let that sit there.

“We knew Texas had to meet with its board of regents and I assume that they did that within the week. So we had a conference call that was set up within ten days and all of the Big Eight presidents were on the conference call, and quite frankly, we did not know who was on for the Southwest Conference.”

Fifteen minutes into that call, Wefald spoke up.

“I just said 'what do you guys in the Southwest Conference want to do?” he asked.

The first person to chime in: Bob Berdahl, the president of Texas.

“He said 'we’ve decided you should invite four schools: Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor and Texas Tech,” Wefald recalled.

Texas and A&M were considered key components to the expansion, while Baylor and Texas Tech had some advantages on its side.

Ann Richards, the governor of Texas at the time, was a Baylor graduate. Therefore, the Bears’ move to the Big 12 would be supported.

Texas Tech also had leverage, as key members in both the House and the Senate of the Texas legislature had a strong affiliation with the Red Raiders. Meanwhile, TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston would be left out of the mix

“After the conference call I made sure we got telegrams with invitations to those four schools to join,” Wefald said. “So like magic, we had a Big 12 and it was ready to go by 94.”

On the outside looking in, everything seemed OK in the Big 12. But there were always points of contention in regards to the league perhaps catering to Texas. The Longhorns were a valued commodity to the league, and perhaps had some advantages others did not.

“The University of Texas, we met maybe a month later to come up with a mission statement and some ground rules,” Wefald said. “Texas made it very clear all gate receipts would be kept by each school and we all supported that.”

But Texas also took issue with Proposition 48s — which was a rule enacted in 1986 that requires incoming college athletes to have a 2.0 GPA in 11 core courses and score at least a 700 on the SAT or a 15 on the ACT. This was better known as partial qualifiers, and Texas wanted the number allowed in the old Big Eight to be decreased significantly in the Big 12, which left a sour taste in the mouth of Nebraska football coach Tom Osborne.

“At the time, Tom Osborne maybe had over 20 or 25 Prop 48s and they were all excellent players,” Wefald said. “Texas said we’re only going to permit one and if you don’t go along with it we’re not going to join — it was almost like that. And we supported that. It was so important to have Texas and Texas A&M as part of this new conference and Baylor and Texas Tech are both excellent — so we had this Big 12 and we pretty much agreed on the ground rules.”

But there were other rules some schools were bitter over. Revenue would not be distributed evenly under the guidelines of the new Big 12, as only 50 percent was divided equally among the league’s schools.

“It was always the debate on the other 50 percent of the television revenues,” Wefald said. “In the Big Ten and the Southeastern Conference, they share 100 percent and that was always a point of contention. But Texas and Texas A&M, Oklahoma and probably Nebraska felt it was fine to have 50 percent based on appearances because they were going to be on just about every week and that’s just the way it is.”

So the Big 12 was built, and in 1996, K-State played Texas Tech in the inaugural Big 12 football game in Manhattan. It was an exciting time for nearly all involved.

Those happy times have now turned to doom and gloom for a league that just a few years ago, had its issues, but all the schools seemed content.

Now animosity appears to exist, and trustworthy relationships have seemingly turned into a game of everyone looking behind, hoping not to be stabbed in the back.

“I’m sitting here and I can’t believe this is happening,” Wefald said. “You’re taking a conference that was just perfect. You could drive to anywhere — everything was drivable. We had great rivalries — historic rivalries. We all got along well.”

The rapid speed of all the talk regarding conference realignment has shocked Wefald.

“I am stunned at how rapid and quick this whole development has taken place,” he said. "I wish they would just think about it for a while.

“It’s a great conference. I think people really love the Big 12. I just wish they would stop and think about all the advantages for the Big 12. There are so many.”

Wefald admits he’s just a fan now, but at the same time, it’s difficult to watch something he helped build possibly crumble so quickly. And there’s nothing he can do but hope that in the end, cooler heads prevail, and logic defies greed and jealousy. And with Tuesday’s news, everything may turn out OK for the league.

“The whole thing — it’s all most surrealistic,” he said. "I shouldn’t be getting a headache over this, but I do. It’s just, ‘why?’ How is this helping the sports of all these Big 12 schools?

"It’s very disappointing. It all kind of leaves you speechless. The fact that pride, irritation, anger over things you wouldn’t say are that major would lead to the dissolution of the Big 12… I just wish everybody would sit back and think about it more.

“It would just be very heartbreaking to see the Big 12 break up.”

Did you all catch this:

“You know, this story has never been written before,” he says.

Now you understand what uta did. uta has been our arch enemy, both academically and politically. Again they tried the same thing, kill the BIG12 so no more Texas schools would be in a power conference. They almost succeeded but for Bowlesby to save the BIG12 and threaten espn with a lawsuit. espn caved in and you can now understand a little bit more why espn does not give rat’s/rodent arse about the BIG12.

law you surely do not know better than the former Kansas State President. If you do you must believe in unicorns too.

[monceaux (Ryan Monceaux)]

14 years ago today, UH beat Tulane 73-17 in the Superdome. Of UH’s 11 scoring drives, the longest was 126 seconds. They scored 35 in the 2nd quarter, and it was the 7th straight game UH scored 49 or more.

Patrick Edwards caught 3 TDs. Charles Sims had 207 yards and 2 TDs on 10 carries (he was 3 for 18 in the first quarter - so, 7 for 189 and 2 scores over the last 3 quarters.

The numbers are gaudy, especially when you know that two of UH’s touchdowns were punt returns:

I think there are two games in UH history where the Coogs averaged 10 yards per attempt both passing and rushing (with at least 20 attempts of each) - SMU 1989 and Tulane 2011. Tulsa 1968 only had 16 pass attempts.

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

The Big 8 decided it only wanted UT and aTm…that is to say…UNTIL Bob Bullock intervened and told UT and aTm they weren’t going anywhere and would lose their state funding UNLESS they agreed to take Tech and Baylor along and send a message to the Big 8 precisely to that effect; the Big 8, knowing that they’d lose the brands they really wanted (100K+ per game mega brands like UT and aTm) if they likewise didn’t agree to those ads, made concessions to take them in.

THOSE are the FACTS.

Period. FULL STOP!!!

Again, they aren’t lies. Any assertion by you to the contrary, by contrast, is at best ignorant and non-factual, and at worst, a deliberate lie if you know those facts and openly disregard them by either deliberately withholding them or knowingly saying/posting something different or to the contrary.

And of course, what Bullock SHOULD have done is told UT and aTm that they weren’t going anywhere UNLESS they took Tech and HOUSTON with them, NOT Tech and Baylor.

His job as LT Gov is to look out for the EXECUTIVE Branch of our government, which includes UH…NOT to look out for the interests of a dang CHURCH school over a STATE school and executive branch agency like UH.

That’s totally wrong, totally a breach of the fiduciary duty he owes to our executive branch agencies like UH, and a total dereliction of his duties.

Promoting Church over State. UNAMERICAN!!!

Hey listen. As a LT Gov, he shouldn’t promote CHURCH schools like Baylor, TCU, and SMU OVER the State Universities (UH) which he is supposed to be looking out for in the executive branch.

But guess what?

That’s EXACTLY what he did.

And that’s WHY Baylor got in over UH…a decision which, over the course of decades, cost us AT LEAST TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

CASE CLOSED!!!

Hey look Bro. The Big 8 obviously didn’t want to take everyone, didn’t want to merge with the SWC, and obviously only wanted to take UT and aTm. That’s fine. The Big 8 is a private corporation and can decide, like any other private club, who it wants to be in its club. If they decide privates (all SWC privates were CHURCH schools except Rice, which was and remains a bottom of the barrel brand that of course they didn’t want) don’t belong, little can be done.

OTOH…as someone with power over the executive branch and influence over funding, the LT Gov CAN tell executive branch agencies like UT and aTm that if they join, their state funding is gone. Political power CAN be used in THAT WAY, and it was.

But to the extent that political power can be used to convince UT and aTm to change their mind and not completely abandon ship, the top priority for said use of power should go to the PUBLIC universities which he, as an executive branch leader, has authority over as a leader in the executive branch, and which are a part of his own executive branch of government…LIKE HOUSTON!!!

It should NOT be used to promote the interests of a private CHURCH school…like Baylor…OVER a State U. like Houston.

Yet that’s EXACTLY what happened.

Again…PERIOD…FULL STOP!!!

DON’T LIE and claim otherwise, and then accuse other people that know the facts, know the truth, and tell the truth, of being the ones “spreading lies.”

That’s you, not I.

[jtdees (Trent)]

Jeez, neither one of you is lying, you’re each using good reporting from opposite ends of the story. It’s like the blind men touching the elephant. Big 8 wanted to merge, at first were told no by UT, later were told yes but only these 4 teams. Why did they say that? Because Bullock made them an offer they couldn’t refuse. The puzzle pieces line up just fine right there. The sources in each article y’all are using are talking from a point of view, and people don’t like to self incriminate on the record. If they were ultimately all jerks to us, then they all bear responsibility.

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

Not quite.

They had an offer from the Big 8 of just them and aTm, which they were happy to take, UNTIL Bullock told them that they couldn’t leave unless they also took Baylor and Tech, otherwise they’d lose state funding.

That forced them to go back to the Big 8 and beg them for the same deal. The Big 8, not wanting to lose their chance to get UT and aTm, of course acquiesced and took Tech and Baylor.

But Bullock SHOULD have been stumping for UH, not Baylor, of course. By doing what he did, he promoted the interests of the (Baptist) Church - Baylor, over the interests of the STATE (Houston) universities which, he, as an executive branch leader, is supposed to be looking out for the interests of.

Sorry, but that is SOOOO WRONG and SOOO UNAmerican on SOOOO many different levels. And it’s a move that cost us MILLIONS.

Hey listen. 92010 is the one who started with this “stop spreading lies” garbage, so as long as he wants to start that crap…it’s only fair that he get a bit of it thrown back in his face. Hopefully it’ll deter him from doing that in the future, because he has a bit of a history of doing that.

So if either he or you don’t want me to accuse him of lying…then he shouldn’t inaccurately/inappropriately start by doing the same to me.

Right?

And if he does, as he did here, then he reaps what he sows.

[92010Coogs (I took a lie detector test...No I did not)]

law knows better than a BIG8 President. I have read a lot of bogus post but this one tops it all.
law would argue endlessly even though he knows he is wrong.
Fact:
uta dictated the implosion of the SWC.
uta dictated who was going to be included into the BIG12.
uta tried to dictate the demise of the BIG12.
FACT:
Houston
Dallas
Forth Worth
These are major recruiting areas.
Waco is not
Common denominator? uta.
It could not be any clearer than this.

Now you understand why I despise uta and some others do too. What uta has done to UH is immeasurable in terms of Dollars. Them selling the ut Houston land is another lie on top of many over decades.

GO COOGS

[jtdees (Trent)]

Well I tried. UT wanted only them and the ags. We’ve known that for years. Bullock made them take Baylor over us. We’ve known that for years. The Big 8 folks wanted a straight merge, but neither Cunningham nor Bullock did anything to go along with that, they both tried to keep us out and they succeeded. What’s the issue?

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

To me, that’s it.

But what 92010 says…IN NO WAY suggests that what I said is either factually incorrect, or a “lie.”

In reality, evidence from people who were there suggests a) it’s factually correct, AND b) as such, my saying it is hardly a “lie.”

92010 needs to stop saying crap to that effect unless he wants it thrown back at him in the same way.

What he said/the Big 8 guy said may explain why a merger didn’t happen.

It does NOT explain why Baylor and Tech were ultimately taken, and we weren’t.

Bob Bullock’s pressure is the explanation for that. As I said. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

[coachv (Chris Vaughan)]

Ann Richards & Bob Bullock strongarmed Baylor into the Big 12. That’s the way it went down

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

Amen.

As I said…PERIOD…FULL STOP!!!

I think that everybody here except one knows that.

[jtdees (Trent)]

My point is that you both have a piece of the story, and you need both for the full picture. They go together, so neither one of you is wrong. The calling each other liars is a separate issue, it amounts to dennis measuring, and neither one of you looks good for it.

[uhlaw97 (Ryon Adams)]

I never denied HIS piece of the picture, as he did mine.

But his piece of the picture, as I said, only explains why a merger didn’t take place.

It DOES NOT explain why Tech and Baylor ultimately got in and we didn’t. MY PIECE explains that.

And it’s hardly a “lie” as he alleged. So when he accuses me falsely of lying, I’ll accuse him right back of “lying” by calling me a liar/denying my factually/evidence supported explanation.