Excuse me?

Politics
1

https://twitter.com/simonateba/status/1670796983697637379?s=46&t=oldgGWcN8s-VXc9RkNz2BA

Thoughts?

1 Like
2

What the hell???

I guess we are arming Taiwan….for what reason.

Unless he is implying that he wants Taiwan to invade mainland China.

3

We officially don’t take a position, right? That’s been true for a long time, or at least I thought.

2 Likes
4

Correct, the official position is basically “we have no official position” declaring for Taiwanese independence is basically throwing fire crackers at powder kegs.

Now we still sell them toys like we totally suppot their independence. But it is not as of yet official US policy.

Much ado about nothing.

2 Likes
5

The official position of the US has been that Taiwan is part of China, which is why we don’t recognize them by exchanging ambassadors. This ambiguity has kept the peace since Chiang Kai‐shek was run out after the Communist takeover by Mao in 1949.

Nothing new here.

4 Likes
6

“We remain opposed to any unilateral changes by either side.”

We have long supported a one-China policy. Doesn’t mean we support China taking over Taiwan. Chinese understand that.

3 Likes
7
8

Just crazy.

Guess we are sitting this one out.

FYI- pepperseed is back as Coog -83.

9

Huh?

What are you looking at 51?

What am I missing?

10

Peaceful bi-lateral negotiated unification is what Blinken is referring to,which is an accordance with the original communiques Mao personally signed and negotiated for. China has slipped into their rhetoric about Taiwan they may use force which the U.S. has never agreed to or signed on to in any agreement with China backing such language. Taiwan after seeing what China did in Hong Kong, Taiwan will never sign onto a joint unification agreement with the CPC. Knowing there word is no good. Just like Xi told Obama they would never militarize those reclaimed island they built ( just observation pot Xi said) in the S. China Sea. Xi just flat out lied to the President’'s face

11

Yeah, this is the same policy as forever. China knows we’ll intervene if they invade Taiwan.

1 Like
12

I guess the question is, do the Taiwanese people want to be unified with China? If China invades do we defend Taiwan?

13

I’m going to say no to the first question and I don’t know to the second.

1 Like
14

Here’s the language of the original communiques. There seems to be no language about peaceful unification on the China side of refuting force of arms or U S side not assisting Taiwa. . Pretty much says the settling of the matter is and internal China matter. Which in diplomacy means it’s between China and Taiwan since it’s part of China to settle the Matter between the 2, but the U.S. reserves the right to supply them weapons regardless on how China feels and U.S. doesn’t need to inform the CCP prior to doing so. Diplomatically it means you want to force unification by military means it’s going to cost you so you better try doing it peacefully. Pretty much the rhetoric you hear is pretty much sticking to the communiques from what I can see.

U.S.-China Joint CommuniquĂŠs: 1972, 1979, 1982

(The three joint communiques issued by the United States and China in 1972, 1979, and 1982 continue to serve as the foundation for U.S.-China relations.)

Joint U.S.-China CommuniquĂŠ Issued at Shanghai, 1972

resident Richard Nixon of the United States of America visited the People’s Republic of China at the invitation of Premier Chou En-lai of the People’s Republic of China from February 21 to February 28, 1972. Ac­companying the President were Mrs. Nixon, U.S. Secretary of State William Rogers, Assis­tant of the President Dr. Henry Kissinger, and other American officials.

President Nixon met with Chairman Mao Tse-tung [Mao Zedong] of the Communist Par­ty of China on February 21. The two leaders had a serious talk and frank exchange of views on Sino-U.S. relations and world affairs.

During the visit, extensive, earnest, and frank discussions were held between Presi­dent Nixon and Premier Chou En-lai on the normalization of relations between the United States of America and the People’s Republic of China, as well as on other matters of interest to both sides. In addition, Secretary of State Wil­liam Rogers and Foreign Minister Chi Peng-fei held talks in the same spirit.

President Nixon and his party visited Pe­king [Beijing] and viewed cultural, industrial and agricultural sites, and they also toured Hanchow and Shanghai where, continuing discussions with Chinese leaders, they viewed similar points of interest.

The leaders of the People’s Republic of China and the United States of America found it beneficial to have this opportunity, after so many years without contact, to present can­didly to one another their views on a variety of issues. They reviewed the international situ­ation in which important changes and great upheavals are taking place and expounded their respective positions and attitude.

The U.S. side stated: Peace in Asia and peace in the world requires efforts both to reduce immediate tensions and to eliminate the basic cause of conflict. The United States will work for a just and secure peace: just, because it fulfills the aspirations of peoples and nations for freedom and progress; se­cure, because it removes the danger of foreign aggression. The United States supports indi­vidual freedom and social progress for all the peoples of the world, free of outside pressure or intervention. The United States believes that the effort to reduce tensions is served by improving communications between countries that have different ideologies as to lessen the risks of confrontation through accident, mis­calculation, or misunderstanding. Countries should treat each other with mutual respect and be willing to compete peacefully, letting performance be the ultimate judge. No country should claim infallibility and each country should be prepared to reexamine its own attitudes for the common good. The United States stressed that the peoples of Indochina should be allowed to determine their destiny without outside intervention; its constant primary objective has been a negotiated solu­tion; the eight-point proposal put forward by the Republic of Vietnam and the United States on January 27, 1972, represents a basis for the attainment of that objective; in the absence of a negotiated settlement, the United States envis­ages the ultimate withdrawal of all U.S. forces from the region consistent with the aim of self-determination for each country of Indochina. The United States will maintain its close ties with and support of the Republic of Korea to seek a relaxation of tension and increased communication in the Korean peninsula. The United States places the highest value on its friendly relations with Japan; it will continue to develop the existing close bonds. Consis­tent with the United Nations Security Council Resolution of December 21, 1971, the United States favors the continuation of the ceasefire between India and Pakistan and the withdraw­al of all military forces to within their own

territories and to their own sides of the cease­fire line in Jammu and Kashmir; the United States supports the right of the peoples of South Asia to shape their future in peace, free of military threat, and without having the area become the subject of great power rivalry.

The Chinese side stated: Wherever there is opposition, there is resistance. Countries want independence, nations want liberation, and the people want revolution—this has become the irresistible trend of history. All nations, big or small, should be equal; big nations should not bully the small and strong nations should not bully the weak. China will never be a su­perpower and it opposes hegemony and power politics of any kind. The Chinese side stated that it firmly supports the struggles of all the oppressed people and nations for freedom and liberation and that the people of all countries have the right to choose their social systems according to their own wishes and the right to safeguard the independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of their own countries and oppose foreign aggression, interference, con­trol, and subversion. All foreign troops should be withdrawn to their own countries.

The Chinese side expressed its firm support to the peoples of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in their efforts for the attain­ment of their goal and its firm support to the seven-point proposal of the Provisional Revo­lutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam and the elaboration of February this year on the two key problems in the proposal, and to the Joint Declaration of the Summit Conference on the Indochinese Peoples. It firmly supports the eight-point program for the peaceful unification of Korea put forward by the Government of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea on April 12, 1971, and the stand for the abolition of the “U.N. Commis­sion for the Unification and Rehabilitation of Korea.” It firmly opposes the revival and outward expansion of Japanese militarism and firmly supports the Japanese people’s desire to build an independent, democratic, peace­ful and neutral Japan. It firmly maintains that India and Pakistan should, in accordance with the United Nations resolutions on the India-Pakistan question, immediately withdraw all their forces to their respective territories and to their own sides of the ceasefire line in Jammu and Kashmir and firmly supports the Pakistan Government and people in their struggle to preserve their independence and sovereignty and the people of Jammu and Kashmir in their struggle for the right of self-determination.

There are essential differences between China and the United States in their social systems and foreign policies. However, the two sides agreed that countries, regardless of their social systems, should conduct their relations on the principles of respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all states, non-ag­gression and mutual benefit, and peaceful coexistence. International disputes should be settled on this basis, without resorting to the use or threat of force. The United States and the People’s Republic of China are prepared to apply these principles to their mutual rela­tions.

With these principles of international rela­tions in mind the two sides stated that:

  • •progress toward the normalization of relations between China and the United States is in the interests of all countries;

  • •both wish to reduce the danger of inter­national conflict;

  • •neither should seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region and each is opposed to efforts by any other country or group of coun­tries to establish such hegemony; and

  • •neither is prepared to negotiate on behalf of any third party or to enter into agreements or understandings with the other directed at other states.

Both sides are of the view that it would be against the interests of the peoples of the world for any major country to divide up the world into spheres of interest.

The two sides reviewed the long-stand­ing serious disputes between China and the United States. The Chinese side reaffirmed its position: The Taiwan question is the crucial question obstructing the normalization of rela-tions between China and the United States; the Government of the People’s Republic of China is the sole legal government of China; Taiwan is a province of China which has long been returned to the motherland; the liberation of Taiwan is China’s internal affair in which no other country has the right to interfere; and all U.S. forces and military installations must be withdrawn from Taiwan. The Chinese govern­ment firmly opposes any activities which aim at the creation of “one China, or one Taiwan,” “one China, two governments,” “two Chinas,” and “independent Taiwan,” or advocate that the status of Taiwan remains to be determined.

The U.S. side declared: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position. It reaffirms its interest in peace­ful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves. With this prospect in mind, it affirms the ultimate objective of the withdrawal of all U.S. forces and military in­stallations on Taiwan as the tension in the area diminishes.

The two sides agreed that it is desirable to broaden the understanding between the two peoples. To this end, they discussed specific areas in such fields as science technology, culture, sports and journalism, in which peo­ple-to-people contacts and exchanges would be mutually beneficial. Each side undertakes to facilitate the further development of such contacts and exchanges.

Both sides view bilateral trade as an­other area from which mutual benefit can be derived, and agreed that economic relations based on equality and mutual benefit are in the interest of the peoples of the two countries. They agree to facilitate the progressive devel­opment of trade between their countries.

The two sides agreed that they will stay in contact through various channels, including the sending of a senior U.S. representative to Peking from time to time for concrete consulta­tions to further the normalization of relations between the two countries and continue to exchange views on issues of common interest.

The two sides expressed the hope that the gains achieved during this visit would open up new prospects for the relations between the two countries. They believe that the normal­ization of relations between the two countries is not only in the interest of the Chinese and American peoples but also contributes to the relaxation of tension in Asia and the world.

President Nixon, Mrs. Nixon and the American party expressed their appreciation for the gracious hospitality shown them by the Government and people of the People’s Repub­lic of China.

Joint Communiqué on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations between the United States of America and the People’s Republic of China, January 1, 1979

he United States of America and the People’s Republic of China have agreed to recognize each other and to establish diplo­matic relations as of January 1, 1979.

The United States of America recognizes the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal government of China. Within this context, the people of the United States will maintain cultural, commercial, and other unofficial relations with the people of Taiwan.

The United States of America and the Peo­ple’s Republic of China reaffirm the principles agreed on by the two sides in the Shanghai Communique and emphasize once again that:

  • •Both wish to reduce the danger of inter­national military conflict.

  • •Neither should seek hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region or in any other region of the world and each is opposed to efforts by any other country or group of countries to establish such hegemony.

  • •Neither is prepared to negotiate on behalf of any third party or to enter into agreements or understandings with the other directed at other states.

  • •The government of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.

  • •Both believe that normalization of Sino-American relations is not only in the interest of the Chinese and American peoples but also contributes to the cause of peace in Asia and the world.

The United States of America and the People’s Republic of China will exchange Am­bassadors and establish Embassies on March 1, 1979.

Joint U.S.-China CommuniquĂŠ, August 17, 1982

  • . In the Joint Communique on the Es­tablishment of Diplomatic Relations on January 1, 1979, issued by the Government of the United States of America and the Gov­ernment of the People’s Republic of China, the United States of America recognized the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal government of China, and it acknowledged the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China. Within that context, the two sides agreed that the people of the United States would contin­ue to maintain cultural, commercial, and other unofficial relations with the people of Taiwan. On this basis, relations between the United States and China were normalized.

The question of the United States arms sales to Taiwan was not settled in the course of negotiations between the two countries on establishing diplomatic relations. The two sides held differing positions, and the Chinese side stated that it would raise the issue again following normalization. Recognizing that this issue would seriously hamper the develop­ment of the United States-China relations, they have held further discussions on it, during and since the meetings between President Ronald Reagan and Premier Zhao Ziyang and between Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Vice Premier and Foreign Minister Huang Hua in October, 1981.

Respect for each other’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and non-interference in each other’s internal affairs constitute the fundamental principles guiding United States-China relations. These principles were confirmed in the Shanghai Communique of February 28, 1972, and reaffirmed in the Joint Communique on the Establishment of Dip­lomatic Relations which came into effect on January 1, 1979. Both sides emphatically state that these principles continue to govern all aspects of their relations.

The Chinese government reiterates that the question of Taiwan is China’s internal affair. The Message to Compatriots in Taiwan issued by China on January 1, 1979 promul­gated a fundamental policy of striving for peaceful reunification of the Motherland. The Nine-Point Proposal put forward by China on September 30, 1981 represented a further major effort under this fundamental policy to strive for a peaceful solution to the Taiwan question.

The United States Government at­taches great importance to its relations with China, and reiterates that it has no intention of infringing on Chinese sovereignty and territorial integrity, or interfering in China’s internal affairs, or pursuing a policy of “two Chinas” or “one China, one Taiwan.” The United States Government understands and appreciates the Chinese policy of striving for a peaceful resolution of the Taiwan question as indicated in China’s Message to Compatriots in Taiwan issued on January 1, 1979, and the Nine-Point Proposal put forward by China on September 30, 1981. The new situation which has emerged with regard to the Taiwan ques­tion also provides favorable conditions for the settlement of the United States-China differ­ences over the question of United States arms sale to Taiwan.

Having in mind the foregoing statements of both sides, the United States Government states that it does not seek to carry out a long­term policy of arms sales to Taiwan, that its arms sales to Taiwan will not exceed, either

in qualitative or in quantitative terms, the level of those supplied in recent years since the establishment of diplomatic relations between the United States and China, and that it intends to reduce gradually its sales of arms to Taiwan, leading over a period of time to a final resolution. In so stating, the United States acknowledges China’s consistent position regarding the thorough settlement of this issue.

In order to bring about, over a period of time, a final settlement of the question of Unit­ed States arms sales to Taiwan, which is an issue rooted in history, the two governments will make every effort to adopt measures and create conditions conducive to the thorough settlement of this issue.

The development of United States-China relations is not only in the interests of the two peoples but also conducive to peace and stability in the world. The two sides are determined, on the principle of equality and mutual benefit, to strengthen their ties in the economic, cultural, education, scientific, tech­nological, and other fields and make strong, joint efforts for the continued development of relations between the governments and peo­ples of the United States and China.

In order to bring about the healthy development of United States-China relations, maintain world peace, and oppose aggression and expansion, the two governments reaffirm the principles agreed on by the two sides in the Shanghai Communique and the Joint Com­munique on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations. The two sides will maintain contact and hold appropriate consultations on bilater­al and international issues of common

15

Yes to the second, and no to the first. It’s easy to look up, but Taiwan thinks of itself as a sovereign nation. “Made in Taiwan”, not “Made in China”.

1 Like
16

Dude, I respect you, but that’s a lot. Gonna be a “TLDR” for most.

You might want to summarize.

17

Your right, that’s why I think it will be near impossible for them to unify without the use of force, unfortunately. One country 2 systems rhetoric CCP uses is null and void as far as the Taiwanese are concerned. Especially after what they did in Hong Kong…

18

Too lazy to read the Communiques that’s on them the ones who truly want to know will read it and try to understand after all our lives may depend on it. Unfortunately…

19

Calling anyone “lazy” is counter-productive. Like I said, I respect you, but you can’t force things on people.

EDIT: And I’m well versed in all of this, but many are not.

One needs to educate, not lecture.

20

Lazy trifling or any other adjective is my way of putting it. If you offended by directness, sorry.