One thing I agreed with Obama on

And profoundly disagreed with Trump and Betsy Devos on.

One of the things that used to chap my hide is when I’d see Soldiers use their GI Bill benefits to go get outrageously expensive and academically low prestige for profit degrees from schools like the University of Phoenix.

What a waste.

I remember Obama was taking actions against that, and I supported them. Then Trump/DeVos came along and seemingly reversed that.

This STILL bothers me.


How do you propose they fix that?

Some like Devry and ITT are out of business now, right?

How about by making such schools INELIGIBLE for the receipt of GI BilI funds?

Hey listen.

I got two degrees via the post 9/11 GI Bill:

MS from Illinois (2016)
LL.M from Yeshiva U., Cardozo School of Law (2023)

Both are established, non-profit schools, and one is even AAU.

But consider this.

There are all sorts of trade schools, beauty schools, etc. that you can also use your GI Bill to pay for.

What I oppose is so called for-profit “universities” that are in business primarily to make a profit and build shareholder wealth rather than to provide an education.

Those schools suck away the Vet’s GI Bill benefits and leave them with a degree that no one respects, is non-marketable, doesn’t teach them much, and leaves them unqualified for work in the civilian world.

A Vet would be better off doing what my cousin did: taking his Army GI Bill benefits and using them to go to aviation mechanic’s school than dumping that same money into the black hole known as the University of Phoenix.


Speaking of Devry/ITT. Guess what the first institution of “higher learning” was in Houston.

Massey Business College, ca. 1900.

And they fielded a baseball team.

BTW, if you’re not familiar with how Rice University was ultimately funded/founded on the heels of/by the murder of William Marsh Rice it’s a good read (not so fun for him).

1 Like


Ya know, there are several Voc-Techs that are GI Bill approved that are probably a pretty good use of those benefits.

But so called “for profit” universities like Devry, Phoenix, etc., are just a waste.

I wish troops were protected against predatory schools like those.

Here’s an interesting GI Bill story.

Early in my career, I knew a Sergeant who was getting out. He was talking to the VA and trying to get GI bill funding to attend a school in Hollywood where they train people to make Hollywood monster masks and do monster movie make-up effects.

Not sure if he actually got it approved though.

Hopefully he achieved his dream.

I don’t put much stock in remote learning because it’s too easy to cheat. Do you have any backup on this? I’m asking for a friend before he tacks up his certificate from the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople.

I have three online degrees (out of six).

Two were easy:

MS in Recreation, Sport, and Tourism (Illinois)
Master of Science in Administration (Central Michigan)

OTOH, that online Master of Laws (LL.M) in IP Law from Yeshiva U. was every bit as hard as any in person law degree would be.

But Phoenix, Devry, etc.,…that’s just a dang ripoff.

Online education is probably fine PROVIDED that you go to a school that is otherwise a real, brick and mortar, non-profit school, like those I attended above. It is worth noting that UH offers several online degrees. Hell, one of my online degrees was from an AAU school.

Stay away from schools that put making money ahead of the educational mission, whether online or in person.


1 Like

As someone currently working on an online degree, cheating is as possible and as impactful as the professors want it to be. If they update their pedagogy to make cheating more difficult or less helpful, it can really be a non-issue.

I’ve actually come across a few field application engineers from Devry in the computer industry… Never one from ITT Tech.

Pedagogy has nothing to do with it. All it takes is someone smarter than the person submitting work on the computer to sit next to him or her.

We hired some from ITT and they were good. At the end of day like most degrees , you don’t often use what you learned but it does say you accomplished something. ITT was promoting a guaranteed job which was wrong but other than that the ones we hired were good. Obama should have told them to stop that practice. Our VP was univ of Phoenix and was awesome. If your shutting ITT down then all for profit schools should be but I disagree bc it’s better than nothing and not totally easy to accomplish something.

My brother in law went to devry and had a good career. He repaired tvs etc for rent a center for yrs and used his degree in many ways. It’s not a waste and helps people who don’t want the traditional way. My brother in law was really smart and the navy’s nuclear team wanted him but he declined bc of the 4 yr commitment and could have gone to any university but didn’t want to take the classes that force you to you to take so he went to devry and it worked out. ITT was similar to devry. Obama just needed a scape goat but if serious, he’d shut down all for profit schools.

How’s that different from any higher education course that is graded primarily based on papers, take home tests/quizzes, and graded homeworks?

You can always get someone else to do those assignments for you, even if they are for an “in person” course, right?

There are MANY in-person courses that aren’t graded based upon in-person tests.

For that matter, there are creative ways to cheat in those as well. In a large, mostly anonymous college lecture course, for example, how hard would it be to get someone else to go in and take an exam for you? Probably not very hard in a large course.

Another guy we hired from ITT is still there after over 34 yrs in the tech industry. If he didn’t go to ITT we wouldn’t have hired him and he never used what he studied but since it was IT related we hired him. Obama was wrong and when people do more that high school it shows initiative and character. They won’t shut the univ of Phoenix down bc too many high level execs got masters from there where ITT was an easy target since they offered 2 and 4 yr degrees. It reeks of elitism to go after such schools which helped a lot of people from what I saw in my industry.

ITT Tech deserved to be shut down. Glad they did.

There are exceptions to everything. Overall, that school was crap, took advantage of people, and they were charging $50K for an associates degree.

1 Like

50k is high but a 4 yr degree at a public univ is prob 75 or 100k if you add room and board. Also universal tech institute trains mechanics and ac techs and like the tech schools it just shows the kid did more than high school and they are interested in that field. So now the kids that can’t make it to reg college are worse off if we shut them all down. We need tech and vocational schools to fill the void and help people.

It’s nuts for an associates.

The 50K didn’t include room and board so that’s not apples to apples.

1 Like