1st: You guys got an absolute gem in Kyle Allen. Future first round pick and Sumlin screwed him over at A&M.
2nd: I’m curious, what did UH fans think about Kevin Sumlin before he went to TAMU? From what I’ve heard, many UH fans thought he wasn’t as good as advertised.
Without ethics !!
Spot on regarding point #2.
He was great, but all offense. I have no quarrel with him leaving in the end. It is expected and our program had not yet invested in facilities and staff. Let’s be honest, money talks. We were not paying coaches very much (relative) back then.
Puh-lees. 98% were Sumlin followers. Only concern was when he would leave us for the NFL. Some old timers didn’t like his ‘swag’.
Most of us at A&M are tired of his “Swag.” The atmosphere he creates does not handle adversity well.
He was as good as the QB. he looked great with Case Keenum, when Case went down vs UCLA, we fell to 5-7. He went to A&M and had Manzeil he looked good, not much since.
We all expected him to leave, just not the way he did. He did not prepare the team to play in the Conference Championship which cost us that plus a chance at a BCS bowl.
I started to answer points 1 and 2 independently, until I realized that they are somewhat correlated.
When Sumlin was here, I thought he was as good as anyone in the country from a recruiting and Xs/Os standpoint. Offensive scheme was always cutting edge, and we always had really good talent.
However, I thought he was severely lacking in 2 crucial areas: leadership and people skills. Those deficiencies were somewhat hidden at Houston, as the “booster culture” here was nowhere near as intense as larger traditional powers, and he relied heavily on strong leaders among the players, guys like Case Keenum, Matt Nicholson, Chris Thompson, Marcus McGraw, etc.
I always thought that if he went to a place like TAMU, OU, Texas, etc., where glad-handing rich oil tycoons and schmoozing the higher-ups was a more integral part of the job, his personality deficiencies would start to become a problem, which apparently they have. I also don’t think he is very good at leading a team of young men, and in turn developing leadership qualities in his players.
For those reasons, I always thought he might be more suited to an NFL gig eventually, where his somewhat abrasive personality might not be as big of an issue.
This is absolutely spot on compared to what I have heard from friends on the team. If there is not a leader in the locker room, it’s nearly impossible to be successful with Sumlin because he himself is not a leader.
Spot on evaluation by tccoog10 above.
By comparison, his predecessor (Art Briles) was very congenial while Kevin Sumlin was nothing of the kind.
I won’t pretend I knew anything about Sumlin behind the scenes while he was here. As a fan, I was mostly pleased with the on field product until, as @NOCoog85 mentioned, he found it more important to negotiate his next gig than prepare a senior-laden team for a conference championship game and potential BCS bowl. I still resent him to this day for doing that. I don’t fault him at all for going to A&M, but I do fault him for bailing on a ton of seniors before the season was over. This is exactly the same problem I had with Herman. Have the decency and intergrity to stick with your commitment until the end of the year. I caught so much flack from my Aggie friends saying Sumlin had to leave early to get started on recruiting, blah, blah, blah. Well, Larry Fedora left USM that same year to take the UNC job and he coached USM in their bowl game. Sumlin was all about himself and only cared about those kids to the extent it got him paid. Seems the same is true at A&M since he can’t keep QB recruits on the team. He rode Case Keenum to a bigger paycheck, rode Johnny Football to a bigger paycheck, and now that he’s left with only the players he has recruited, looks like he’ll be out of a job soon. Can’t say I feel sorry for him.
Sumlin won big games here. Beat ranked teams. Beat regional P5 teams. Invigorated our fan base to start buying tickets and eventually build a new stadium. Compare Briles, who was 28-3 here against losing teams and 6-25 against winning teams.
This is why Briles never averaged more than 22K fans per game. He beat no one of consequence. But by the time Sumlin left, we were selling out at 32K fans per game.
Sumlin never had great defenses at UH. The 2011 defense was good not great. He won games with offense.
And on offense, he had Keenum at QB, coordinated by Holgorsen and Kingsbury. A lot of the credit goes to Case.
Sumlin brought the discipline that our team lacked with Briles. Definitely appreciated that. But he was abrasive with the fans/big time alumns and was only as good as the QB. Noone was happier that Case got an extra year of eligibility than Kevin Sumlin.
I respected Sumlin while he was here because he cared about all phases of the game. During his tenure, I believe we were top 5 or 10 in blocked kicks/ punts which helped us win some games (see special teams play in OSU win in Stillwater).
Sumlin, like Bob Stoops when he first got to OU, had a hell of an offensive staff at UH (Holgerson, Kingsbury, some of the grad assistants). I think his staff at A&M isn’t as good. Secondly, I believe he hasn’t been as driven or focused in the last 2 years. There are rumors around his drinking. Something went on with the year he lost both QB’s to transferring that in my opinion was due to him taking his eye off the ball. He was laser focused at UH about everything. He is still paying for not having a more mature QB and this is odd sense he has a hell of a pedigree with QB’s (Bledsoe, Brees, Sam Bradford, Keemun). I sure hope you are right around Allen because he will have a solid group of playmakers around him to outscore most teams on our schedule.
I concur, from my one and only time to interact with him. I found myself in front of him in line at Hobby Airport for a flight. I waited until he and his companion had finished their conversation and turned to say hello and was greeted with a very cold shoulder. I was wearing a Cougar polo and while I’m far from a big $ donor I’ve been a season ticket holder/CP member going back to the old Cougar Club or whatever we called it then. I wouldn’t expect a hug and a kiss but I admit I was a bit taken aback by his lack of congeniality. I looked at him a little differently after that.
Tony Levine might not have been a good HC here but he never failed make time for fans and alums and never failed to ask about my wife and family, even when he was busy. Ask me who I’d rather have my kid play for?
The two qb transfer situation had a lot to do with Sumlin’s integrity.
Kyle Allen was hurt heading into an Alabama game in 2015 that A&M could have won. Instead Allen overthrew 3 receivers in the game and those throws were intercepted and returned for tds. I found out later that Allen had a tear in his shoulder, which Sumlin kept quiet about.
Sumlin had promised playing time to Kevin Murray (Kyler’s dad) during recruitment and conveniently used Allen’s bad game against Bama as a way to transition to Murray. In essence he blamed the Alabama loss on Allen. Both qbs were pissed and it started the process of them transferring out.
Lots of good comments above, but I’d add that a lot of his genius was solidified with Holgerson and Kingsbury as OC and Keenum and Manziel at QB. Those guys can cover a lot of sins.
When I’ve watched A&M games since Kingsbury and Manziel left, I see a good offense but not one that can adjust to original plans. You saw that in the UCLA game when he didn’t switch to a clock-grinding approach with a frosh QB and a huge lead. Some of the in-game chess match he seems to lose.
Funny, I watched the Ole Miss game where Kyle was 12/34 but clear as day something was wrong with him. I was watching the coach’s show with Jackie Sherrill watching the game and commenting. He said that Kyler must be in the doghouse because something was up and they hadn’t taken Kyle out. From the 7 minute mark in the second quarter, KA attempted 22 passes IN A ROW without positive yardage. Two were negative and one was a pick. Finally, in the fourth quarter Sumlin trotted out Hubenak and he was exposed for suspending Kyler.
First, he let KA attempt 22 in a row. Sort of like going tempo again against UCLA in the fourth quarter. Next, he thought he was getting away with suspending Kyler but he was marvelously outed. “just based on practice” Just watched some of that game. KA was chunking it downfield but was just off. Maybe injured but the point was that Sumlin was trying to hide the suspension.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/boxscore?id=24468
EXACTLY. Had he had integrity and not been afraid to piss off Kevin Murray, it probably would have been ok.
To follow up on the QB situation, Sumlin only had to face one QB competition his entire time at UH due to Case being here. That was in 2010 between 2 true freshmen, Terrance Broadway and a David Piland. Broadway was considered the front runner as he had been a highly touted recruit (4*) and Sumlin started him in the Tulane game after Case and Cotton Turner were hurt. Broadway played decently for a true freshman in that Tulane game and the Coogs won. The next week, Piland started and was the starter for the rest of the season.
Broadway transferred to ULaLa and took the Rajin’ Cajuns to their only 3 bowls in school history, going 2-1. If I remember, there was beef between he and Sumlin in regards to his “work ethic” or something to that effect. I had also heard from a player’s parent that I worked with that Piland was the better leader at the time. Needless to say, the reports out of ULaLa on Broadway was that he was a great teammate and competitor.
Piland would redshirt the following year when Case came back and then started in 2012 after Sumlin left. Needless to say, things did not go well with Piland at the helm, but that could have been due to the turmoil of Levine’s 1st offensive coaching staff more than anything. Piland would eventually retire the next year due to concussions.
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