to clarify this was Jamal’s sophomore year
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insinuating jamal and kingston are similar defenders …even as a sophomore is wild
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Yeah, I almost responded to Kyle, but I didn’t. I would definitely take sophomore Jamal over Kingston.
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Already been addressed but we were talking about his sophomore season… he wasn’t nationally commended until his junior/senior season.
$head couldn’t even get on the court his frosh season… Flemings was an All-American his frosh season… like Unc said the question of who was better between soph $head & frosh Flemdawg ain’t even close… Flemdawg takes that ALL DAY.
But I’m not here to ever bash $head… you can go back and look, I was on the $head to the NBA bandwagon after his sophomore year.
Nobody is saying they’re similar defenders. We’re talking about overall players. Overall, KF was a better player. And Kingston was not a defensive liability
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offense gets the award… this isnt a conversation point…
jojo won Lefty Driesell Award, national defensive player of the year as a sophomore, was 3rd team all big 12…(not even 2nd team)
using accolades doesnt make sense …we are all in agreement that flemings was by far the better scorer
Insinuating $head was 5x better than Kingston is the wild take…
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beucase he was…
take 10 minutes of your day and rewatch sheads defensive sophomore highligths
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Not sure playing in Houston was to our advantage when Nebraska had half the crowd that night. And you could make an argument Illinois’ support rivaled ours. We only clearly outdrew Iowa fans. Pretty pathetic from our fan base.
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Kingston averaged 16/5.2 with 4 boards and 1.5 steals
Mal averaged 10/5.8 with 3 boards and 1.6 steals
What are we talking about here?
You can’t be considered a far and away 5x better defender when your stats mirror each other and KF was playing against much better comp. This is why I hate these arguments, you gotta dang near talk down on Mal to prove a point.
Pretty pathetic for the city of Houston not to support their own.
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disagree with overall
flemings is a better scorer
i think shead was better in every other category - defense, playmaking, leadership, toughness,
kingston has marginally better rebounding stats, but i think shead was a better rebounder too… as toward the end of the year we let kingston get uncontested defensive rebnounds to push the pace faster (his strength)… jamal per possession was a better offensive rebounder
i gave a nuanced answer… if i was build a team today to win… and had to pick one… it would be context driven… if the team desperately needed scoring id take flemings… every other scenerio id take shead
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are we using steals to define defense…
this reminds me of the debates i used to have with @justinhub2003 back in te day who said galen wasnt a very good defender and tried to used steal rate to define that
Not me
I am… I don’t even think it’s close either…
As a junior/senior $head all day…
Acting like Flemings was a revolving door on defense is crazy talk…
Fact is if you had a draft between all of those players you’re taking Flemdawg first ALL DAY, EVERY DAY… PERIOD.
IMO people are letting their affinity with Shead cloud judgment. We all love Shead, myself included, because of his overall impact on the program. His heart, toughness, and competitive spirit can never be argued. But we’re talking about him as a sophomore. KF was a better player at that point in their careers. And if we’re talking leadership, I’ve never ever seen a freshman with as much leadership skills as KF, he was way ahead of his time.
@pesik Im not defining defense with steals alone, but if we’re talking 5x better, steals must be in the context. Honestly, I’m surprised you’re arguing against stats, because you used blocks to tell us East and DG aren’t good post defenders.
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No I was referring to Rob Williams.
EXACTLY!!!
I just mentioned that too… Pesik has selective reasoning when defending his post of the day…
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no, i watched 8 full games of east and delrocco, thats why i question the fit at center… weve literally talked about the films ive wached of them before
saying " i watched" alone is not good evidence… so it was “i watched” but since you didnt, his poor block number also corroborates that
i question putting del at center with jojo on the floor as i watch numerous game on rocco getting scored on by small players with ease …
maybe if i have time ill cut some film together…
JMHO…Offensively Yes…Defensively No. Jamal was special just in different ways than KF. Flemings had the ability to be on Mal’s level defensively but we will never know. He was not here long enough. I am not debating the offensive side but it more than just scoring the basketball. Jamal’s impact on the game did not show up in just PPG.
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