I know i heard the term when i was a kid. Later on in life I heard it was from a Shakespeare play, but never read it. Here is what Google says
Shylock is a fictional character in William Shakespeare’s play The Merchant of Venice. A Venetian Jewish moneylender, Shylock is the play’s principal villain. His defeat and forced conversion to Christianity form the climax of the story.
From 1598
Yes I should have mentioned the Shakespearean origin. I’d say based on that, an evil Jewish money lender who is only defeated by converting to Christianity, it certainly is a reference to an antisemitic trope.
That’s a long history of blaming Jews for controlling money. With some pretty significant historical events tied to it
Yes, and falls right into on of the many antisemitic tropes too. Not sure if ironic is the right word for it but of course historically why so many Jews ended up in banking and such were due to the cultural and antisemitic rules that limited Jews from other professions or trades pushed them to what was considered distasteful professions such as banking as opposed to trades we would consider blue collar today.
Australia in the last day or two…
Attempted arson at synagouge while people were worshiping inside. Same time an Israeli restaurant had 20 or so people harrassing customers, and then another Jewish linked business had cars set on fire outside as well.
I’m a GenXer, so I’ve been around for more than half a century. I was surprised to learn the antisemitic connotation of “Shylock”. I know it comes from Shakespeare, but, to me, the term simply means a businessman who engages in unscrupulous tactics. It is a synonym to “charlatan” and has no ethnic implications. If I demand a metaphorical “pound of flesh” am I using another antisemitic term?
If you used and someone told you about the antisemitic connection, would you apologize for using it?
I wouldn’t consider it a synonym to charlatan. I think that’s something else. However I’m curious your answer to RT’s question.
First of all, I don’t use the term “Shylock”, so I can’t imagine being in that position. Additionally, as I said, I’m surprised to hear of the antisemitic connotation to the term. So, going forward, I still won’t use the term “Shylock”.
I do use the term “pound of flesh”. If “Shylock” is antisemitic, is “pound of flesh” antisemitic? I do use that term. If accused of antisemitism for using it, I probably wouldn’t apologize. I would likely express surprise that a Shakespearian term was considered antisemitic.
ETA: I did use the term “don’t throw me in the briar patch” in a business meeting once. I was told that was a racist term. I was shocked. When did Brer Rabbit become racist? The person later came back to walk back her comment saying that “tar baby” is racist, but briar patch is not. I guess I just don’t know the rules.
I think “pound of flesh” doesn’t have the same connotation as Shylock although they are related in their use in Merchant of Venice. I think “pound of flesh” more has to do with the law or legal system in that case. I think it is safe to say.
It’s a hypothetical. You didn’t know (which is true) and said it. Someone explained it to you, would you apologize?
Yeah, I don’t think they are the same either.
Google Shylock. It’s pretty clearly antisemitic.
I am really shocked about the antisemitic connotation based on its origin. I actually view Shylock as being an oddly sympathetic character in The Merchant of Venice.
This isn’t the first time this has come up in current events. I can certainly see how it was missed before but it’s not like people are just picking on someone now.
But I will say in my almost 50 years on this planet, I’ve hardly heard it used outside of Shakespeare references, Get Shorty, and then the occasional use of it in some sort of entertainment program where the character likely used it as a slur. I think it is a really odd choice to use it in any sort of every day context - which I think it being so unusual draws even more attention to it. It is just very outdated for the general lexicon.
Well you learned something new.
I still want to know if Shylock’s “pound of flesh” is considered an antisemitic term. “Pound of flesh” was Shylock’s demand in the Merchant of Venice. Based on this conversation, “pound of flesh” sounds vaguely similar to a blood libel (which is without a doubt antisemitic), but like the term “Shylock” itself, I’ve always viewed “pound of flesh” as a Shakespearian term with no connection to antisemitism.
Dustin addressed that above. His view is you’re safe using it.
This conversation reminds me of one I had with a very good friend who didn’t like the word “thug”. He equated it with the N-word. I disagree, but I respected his wishes. It wasn’t worth losing a friend over.
Yes, Shylock is anti-Semitic.
Every time I hear Shylock I think of this guy, and he’s likely not being anti-semitic, but his name is likely derived from that word. Hmm…not sure they thought it through.
©Copyright 2017 Coogfans.com