42% of the total number of deaths from Covid virus come from nursing homes. From Reason.com
I think this number puts the who issue of lockdowns in a different position.
The other number I was given today is that 27% of the people who died last year and according to the conversation I had the man asserted that number has been the same for the last 3 years. Not sure how to verify that stat. .
Could you restate or reframe the second stat for me, I couldn’t understand it.
I’m not sure how I would change anything knowing that 58% come from outside congregate living facilities (which I am sure that stat actually is instead of nursing homes). I don’t think that stat changes anything for me.
No, it doesn’t change anything. The NYT reported that figure a month or more ago, and obviously Dr. Fauci, Dr. Hotez, and other public health experts are aware of it. Obviously you still have 60% who aren’t in such facilities or people connected to them dying, and moreover, we know that Covid often has severe, long-term effects on the body. If we continue with half-measures we’re going to be stuck with this indefinitely. Blind man could see that.
The 40% stat has been discussed a lot and for some time. I don’t understand the 27% stat.
More Americans have died from Covid than died in WW I and in all the wars beginning with the Korean. More than twice as many as died in Vietnam.
It obviously demonstrates again where the stricter controls need to be applied versus other places. It also demonstrates they need to better understand how the virus infiltrates those places to control itt better
One of the big FUBARS with our handling of the virus has been with our oldest Americans and places where they live with 80 and up category by far leading in the death category, no other age category is even close.
Perspective okay how about this. The Spanish Flu killed 675,000 in three years when the population of the United States was 1/3 of what it is now. To hit the same levels we would have 2,025,000 deaths. They didn’t shut down the economy, they were nowhere near the same health facilities and the only real nation wide tool that they used was to have people wearing masks. We are a lot further along than they were and Pfizer and the US government just made a deal for a vaccine. In addition to which there is resmivir which Gildead science has that has been show to lessen the time in the hospital for recovery. My perspective Sam is that the more we know the quicker we can get through this and get back to a normal state of affairs,with the caveat that this is an election year and nothing is the same as before, The closest I can remember to a year like this was 1968 for the turmoil and there was no pandemic that year.
Some cities did shut down with the Spanish Flu. Either way, you can’t really compare something that happened 100 years ago. Especially when we were in a world war at the time.
And, the fact that we didn’t have as coordinated of a response led to more deaths with the Spanish Flu. In other words, part of the reason why COVID has been less deadly than the Spanish Flu is because we did more stop it. If we had the same response now, we would very likely have many more COVID deaths.
There was a flu pandemic in 1968 but this pandemic has killed 40% more people in the US than the 1968 pandemic killed over 2 years. It’s done that in 4 months.
I agree this one isn’t as bad as the Spanish Flu. I think for some of the reasons you mentioned. We are better at handling things like this now. But this being better than than that isn’t going to make people feel better.
We have better meds and facilities now versus our prior three pandemics (spanish flu, asian flu epidemic of 1957, and the Hong Kong flu epidemic if 1968) all three prior epidemics killed over 100,000 Americans and over a million worldwide. When you take into account population sizes in 57 and 68, we are in the same ballpark.
What we don’t have going for us now is:
- A much older population.
- A population that is obese and immune deficient.
- Our homes and commercial architecture is built for comfort and more space under roof as opposed to lots of windows that could be opened and large porches.
HVAC has proven to be very unhealthy in a pandemic.
They also had a minimally competent, racist, self aggrandizing, snobbish jerk as President, Woodrow Wilson.
People were in a different mood though, not only because of the Great War. 11 years later, the stock market (which isn’t the economy) crashed, and everybody went bananas with bailouts and programs and such. It wasn’t even the worst stock market crash in then- living memory, let alone of all time. But as a group people were generally more ready for an intervention then, than they were a decade earlier.
Similarly, a majority now supports the interventions being made, where 10 years ago nobody would have put up with it, as seen with swine flu. That’s not an epidemiological comparison, just a social attitude comparison.
Any loss of life is terrible. The real issue with this thing is ow easily it spreads. We’ve been on the same page on mortality. It can be a deadly virus if the wrong person catches it. The issue has always been how easily it spreads, and continues to spread.
And, of course, we are still unsure of long-term effects of this thing, as Sam has mentioned.
My sister just got over this virus. The worst of it, for her, was the loss of taste and smell. Had a few days of body aches and fever, but nothing too terrible. I always took this virus serious, but hits home more when you know someone that actually has had it. Luckily, she had very mild symptoms. My niece has the antibodies. Never showed a single symptom (2 years old). They live in Florida.
For whatever it is worth, my niece had all of the symptoms including loss of taste and smell but tested negative. Her doctor told her to disregard that test because there are a lot of false negative results. She is getting tested again and getting the antibody test.
I had symptoms but tested negative for both Covid and the antibody,
Who the hell knows anymore.
Interesting side note I did not know about the 1918
pandemic and the wonder drug of the day - aspirin !
This site claims there was a recommendation of
taking 30g / day …
In fact, one of the primary pharmaceutical treatments for the Spanish flu was aspirin, which had been trademarked by Bayer in 1899, but whose patent expired in 1917, allowing companies to manufacturing it during the pandemic. At the time, medical professionals were recommending up to 30 grams of aspirin daily, which we now know is toxic—doses above four grams are unsafe. Aspirin poisoning symptoms include hyperventilation and pulmonary edema (fluid in the lungs), so many medical historians believe many of the deaths from the Spanish flu were either caused or accelerated by aspirin poisoning.
NRG, that was interesting. I had never heard that story.
I guess that is why they call it “practicing” medicine.
well we certainly didnt have ventilators in 1917. The medical use of ventilators, like understand how to use them, has progressed significantly from any of the pandemics one could mention. In other words, its not super useful to try to one-to-one compare covid19 to past pandemics in terms of deaths because we are much better at keeping people alive than we used to be.
You can however, see the vast differences in how this virus has been handled by first world countries (or 2nd and 3rd world, for that matter) and see the responses are not equal. Not. Even. Close. You can try to hedge about differences in patient populations, rural v urbanization, demographics, etc, but it is a simple incontrovertible fact that none of those, even all put together, will explain the vast differences in outcomes.
I find it really astonishing that people want to quantify death… this number is ok, but this number is not. It’s like saying, well he only got punched in the face 2 times instead of 5. So that’s ok.
On the same page with the last comment. I do find the number of deaths, however, to be much more “stunning” than where some percentage of them came from. You think of what a tragedy Vietnam was with nearly 60k killed, and then see that Covid has claimed more than twice as many. It’s pretty sobering, at least for me.
Portland we do that every day with life insurance mortality tables.