There still seems to be mass confusion, among many here, about what constitutes a LOW vs a HIGH ROI student.
I want to reiterate this has nothing to do with the quality of the degree earned but it “may” have something to do with the perception from everyone like the general public to even organizations like AAU due to a LOW ROI Student perception.
I am going to list qualities if the two extremes, LOW and HIGH, understanding our actual students may fall somewhere along the scale.
So much more than just going to a football game/ not going to a football game…that is just one indicators, of the hundreds of connection between student/alum and University
LOW ROI Students (Net Takers)
Commute to class, as they live off-Campus
Leaves campus the second class ends
Never wears school gear
Only attending for their own reason/benefit- degree, to transfer to another University, because they transferred in as last option, etc.
Refuses to attend any athletic events
Refuse invitations to outside of class social gatherings
Refuse to attend sporting events both during and after their days at school
Rarely bonds with co-workers who also attended their alma mater
Never has attended Frontier Fiesta
Doesn’t support current students via attending theater productions, concerts, art gallery, displays, etc. that are put on the students in other majors
Never sets foot on campus again after graduating
Appears almost embarrassed to have earned a degree here and Rarely markets the school to potential high school students or their parents
Never donates back to the College and leaves nothing, from their estate, to their alma mater
Encourages their potential legacy children to attend other University for ‘xyz’ reasons
Never attends job fairs to help graduation students
Poor Networkers and refuses to join alumni Groups
HIGH ROI Students (Net Givers)
Live on-campus both helping support the economies ‘on campus’ and 'surrounding campus ’
stays around after class ends and accepts invitations to ‘out of class’ social events
WANTS to add to the culture/ history of the University
joins social groups/clubs- everything from greek to academic clubs to specialized hobby club
attends worship services on campus (UH had two)
Wants to be a Frontiersman,Cheerleader, Cougar Doll, member of the band, etc.
mentors underclassman while also attending
holds a part time job, on campus. Either in the service industry or as a teacher aide
participates in intramurals
heavily involved in Frontier Fiesta, as it is a core cultural event of the University
Attends sporting events
attends other events supporting fellow classmates, from other majors (ie theater productions, galleries, concerts, debates, etc)
wears college gear
sits on student government or volunteers to help in other ways
after graduating, purchases season tickets
donates money for possible scholarships or to support specific University growth initiatives
wears UH gear at place of employment (i.e Cougar red Fridays) and promotes college to potential high school students and their parents
bonds with other UH graduates, at their place of employment
dresses newborn baby in UH gear and shares with others
encourages children to strongly become a Legacy but understand the final decision is theirs
leaves a portion of their estate to their alma mater
travels to support athletic team in pivotal events or academic events
helps with job fairs to provide jobs for graduating students
If they have a job out of state,m they HIGHLY promote the uniqueness of their alma mater
Possibly, returns to campus to teach
High Networkers and join Alumni groups
I’m sure I’m missing many more, in both categories, but if you have two Applications in front of you…and both equal ONE admission…which student TYPE are you accepting?
Stop accepting transfers from local Houston students who went to another state school before UH, as most likely it did not work out and they come back to UH just to get a degree and nothing else.
If they decide to petition, then they have to promise to wear nothing but UH gear.
I saw too many UT and A&M transfer kids back in my days who never got involved with UH.
Review their extra curricular activities back in high school.
This is a tell tale sign what type of student they will be at UH.
Like minded families sent their children to universities, along with children from other like minded families, to teach them how to become adults and create lifelong networking connections, in addition to their education
This is why many of the early Universities were located in the middle of two major cities.
Finding a potential spouse was a plus because the family background already had been pre-screened.
Universities were more like exclusive extended families that TAUGHT you how to act as an adult and professional
Current Universities are failing miserably at the reason why they were created in the first place…to forge young men and women into independent adults.
Universities morphed into degree factories at some point which eliminated the previous benefits hence our discussion topic
UH1927, your comparison is only aligning with a certain population on the extremes. There are a whole bunch of alumni like me who:
Did not live on campus and commuted. (We have around 50K students and about 8 to 10K beds, what would yo do with the others?)
Attended Night school and left after class (at 10:00pm, what was there to do)
I held a full time job in real workforce often working 50 to 55 hours a week.
I wear UH gear all the time.
I started purchasing season tickets while still a student and have held them ever since 1976, I graduated in 1980. (I have only missed a handful of home games in the 48 years I have been a Coog.)
I wore UH gear at work and had UH paraphernalia all over my office.
I didn’t have time for all of the normal stuff kids do in college because my schedule didn’t allow it.
I have been donating to UH ever since I graduated in 1980 and am a Lifetime Alumni member (although I rarely do anything with the AA).
I have been donating to Cougar Pride and the various previous names for the same since I graduated.
I have been a volunteer worker in several fund raising campaigns.
I go to away games regularly and have gone to every bowl game but 2 since I became a Coog.
My daughter went to UH, was a Cougar Doll, in a sorority, took part in Frontier Fiesta.
I know there are many like me (I’ve worked with at least a dozen over the years) who do the same because, like me, they appreciate the opportunity UH afforded us who had to support a family while getting an education. Broad brushes paint distorted pictures.
yes, I mentioned those were the characteristics of the two polar ‘ideal’ extremes with many fitting somewhere in between , or closer to one or the other.
We’re not a private university that can be too discerning about admissions. If the applicant meets the entrance requirements they’re in. They won’t get a scholarship like Tier 1 but they’re able to attend and hopefully get their degree. Those that barely pass have lower ROI than those who thrive.
This is only early US universities. You also leave out one major component - for the wealthy and elite.
According to some reading, early history of universities goes back to training for the church, then law and medicine.
The very early times of Oxford, according to Britannica, was for impoverished scholars to continue to study at endowed schools to support them. Universities now care little for impoverished scholars.
Once they started to get government support, it was to help educate the population for a better society and fill needs in the job force.
Also direction of public taxpayer supported school should have different goals than what a private school may get away with.
There are very few of the true low-ROI students per the list above.
The problem is being addressed wrong. It is not about admissions since the school is not declining students that fit the high-roi listed above - they are admitted. They may not choose to come to UH, but that is a different issue than admissions.
Need to develop ways to get students to improve connectiveness to the university, not tell them they are not welcome. Admitting some part time students does not prevent those that are interested in engaging from doing so. I know many first generation students that were part time that are proud of their university degrees.
I believe we have been. You only raise admissions standards to the point that you can still enroll the numbers you need. Bonds and local development counts on at least flat enrollment.
The college experience a lot of us wanted to have or had is just not a primary part of today’s culture. Shoot, proms, homecomings and high school sporting attendance is down. I taught at a high school for a bit and prom was attended by maybe 20% of the seniors. Things have changed. The game experience has changed. We have more kids at games than I have ever seen and more living on campus, but that loyalty seems to dip off after graduation. A big part is that big ole’ tuition debt. Inflation isn’t helping either.
I know a lot of folks like me that lived in the towers or quads, lived at Greek houses, wore uh stuff all the time, supported the athletics for years, had kids and drifted away because it just was not a ROI from the university. I was a director at FF, and FF is not what it was in 97 and 98 when I was on the board. I ran for SGA, lost, but ran. I try my best to get to some games but jeez, it just isn’t worth it sometimes. I bought season tickets last year for the first time in a decade. I started buying them as an undergrad and made my way to all American cougar pride. But it just wasn’t worth it anymore. I know dozens of folks like me. We make a big game, kind of reunion, but that is all. Most of them are Texans season ticket holders now.
As a teacher I spend my money wisely. Just helped pay my daughter’s way through Mizzou, which just beat out UH from her choices. The days of hanging out at Coogs and drinking $3 pitchers instead of going to your noon poli sci class are gone.
And I fear that it will become even less as players, the student body’s peers, are making more money as ‘students’ than the actual students will when they graduate.
I wonder how keen the UH graduate with 50k in student loan debt will be willing to give back to an athletic department to pay students.
I get what you’re saying nor am I not disagreeing, but even Harvard would disagree with your statement.
50% of Havard’s admits are getting in merely because they are wealthy and not solely on merit. The other half are legacy admits, athletes, truly special high achieving high school grads (award winners, grant-scholars, etc.), and the remaining going to the high-acheiving DEI students who overcame identity/socially-based obstacles
Unfortunately the wealthy 50% are the ones who donate back to the university when all is said and done. Not the DEI students…
In a perfect and just world, every single freshman Harvard class would be nothing but valedictorian DEI kids that overcame every social obstacle in America. That’s not the case because again… they aren’t the ones that donate back to Harvard.
Harvard is elite because of money. Not academics.
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Duce630
(DustinK - Still 76 hostages held by Hamas for over 15 months)
19
I’ve said this before but I believe we don’t have as significant of a population of the low ROI students as 1927 thinks we do. I think he describes more of the type of student that was all too common in the 80s and in the 90s.
It seems what you’re looking for is coming up with some sort of “social SAT” score to help predict the high ROI so that we can add that as part of the admissions process.
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Duce630
(DustinK - Still 76 hostages held by Hamas for over 15 months)
20
Where did you get these figures?
That’s ridiculous, it’s a combination of both, plus other factors. However, not something I really feel like debating.
