If we don’t figure out American EV production, China will eat our lunch and dominate the market (and yes, there is a huge market building). Protectionism only lasts so long in a global economy, no matter how strong your wishes are.
We’ve subsidized the oil industry for centuries, so a little tax credit (which was deleted out of spite and windmills) would still be useful until the tech scales down affordability wise.
Market manipulation is real, some just are too naive (or protectionist) to care about it.
Base low end vehicles were about high 29s before govt rebates.
As I said in my post I am curious who in China is buying the low end. Who do you think will buy a $20,000 EV in the US? The people with $100,000 incomes that are the ones buying them now will not.
Not sure if you are trying to prove success or failure.
62,000 is out of almost 1.7 million vehicles sold by chevrolet in 2023. Makes the bolt slightly over 3% of their sales which is not success.
Quick search:
" Profitability Issues : Despite selling over 140,000 units since its launch in 2016, the Bolt was not profitable for GM. Reports indicated that GM was losing approximately $9,000 per vehicle sold, which made it difficult to justify continued production."
Talk to the labor unions and lawyers that sue over every problem. Not just an EV issue.
Industry incentives are different than giving people money to buy the vehicle. Incentives to build infrastructure, not wealthy individual tax breaks, will be useful.
All real but who is manipulating and for what purpose.
Just providing info. However, Last 3 years of the product showed good sales trend growth. But, as you say, there is not much profit on low cost cars to begin with. Probably have to get a model at the 100k level to be profitable.
OTOH GM sells 900k+ trucks a year (silverado,sierra,colorado, canyon ) which
are all pricey.
If they sold for $20,000 then they would not be a success.
But for a car that starts at $70,000 for a very base model which few buy (most over $100,000) then they can sell fewer models for profit. Corvette is also one of the types that are a flagship type where it is more of a brand symbol as much as a profit line. A base model EV would not be classified as some sort of flagship model.
Agree, Sales were going up, but the US market is very different than other countries, which goes to the point of my question of who posters think are going to buy low cost EVs in this discussion.
My opinion is that lower income people will mostly buy lower cost new cars. The exact same group that cannot charge an EV regularly (because they do not have a house and garage) thus a Sentra or Versa as opposed to a Leaf. Or more likely buy used (also bad for EVs).
Sentra sold about 150,000 in 2025; 240,000 civics,
The Versa is also low volume and may deal with issues in the near future.
If you’re staring at a $20,000 vehicle that cost 66% less to operate than another $20,000 vehicle, you buy the first one.
Eventually that lower cost to operate vehicle will be lower up front too. That’s the point I keep making. EVs are going to hit a point in the US where they are less expensive up front. They already are in China.
I would be interested in one. I’m not in the lowest income tier, but would be great
to have a low cost, low maintenance, low refuel cost vehicle that I could use
daily. But then again, I’m cheap and never buy the bells and whistles versions
of ICE cars either.
But agree low cost EV market harder to crack in US due to recharging infrastructure for apartment renters. But it is still being built out and seeing
charging stations more and more.
And if you have no place to charge it because you live in an apartment complex, high rise or condo complex without a garage? At least the operation cost will be 0 if you can’t plug it in each night.
Most all here just assume they can CHARGE the car reasonably easy. Who here lives in an apartment and owns an EV with first hand experience?
Absolutely. Breaks should be evenly divided or not at all. I prefer none, but somewhat equal would be workable. I might even settle on useful for the country. Unfortunately goes back to the market manipulation statement earlier - who makes money off of it…
Yes they are here - a couple will do little for a population of 300 million. Scroll up, there was a section showing the huge numbers of gas pumps to meet needs.
You mentioned about figuring out American EV production - Labor charges are a major factor. You don’t have to care about it. I just mentioed a fact about American production limits.
I live in a house.
But I think incentives still needed in this country to spur more investments by
the fords and gms. creates more jobs too and the demand causes expansion of
charging infrastructure build out. I’m all for using tools of government to usher in a
better technology.
Changing rules hurt ford and gm EV investments. No doubt their investment
decisions were based things being in place.
With a house, you can charge your new EV once you can get one.
Most people with lower incomes (and some with high) living in multi-unit places do not have chargers in any quantity that allows practical use. I have checked with many of the new construction and they are not putting in multiple charging stations for their units. Without those people as a target customer, it limits the number of buyers for low cost EVs.
Plus multi-unit housing is growing much faster than single houses.
Agree that investment is needed, but not the payout to wealthy people to buy one. IMO.
With a quick Copilot search, it shows China has finished over 17 million charging stations across their roads while the US only has about 65,000. Huge difference in infrastructure. It allows all levels of citizens to have access to charging, while the US does not.
Stop saying wealthy. Tons of middle class buy EVs, at least in California. The tax breaks helped us quite a bit, and we certainly aren’t wealthy, especially living here.
Their government is bought in and making it happen.
Honestly, this is all an easier transition for them because it helps them now and in the future. I do worry that we are and have been short sighted in this space. China is set to dominate this space for decades to come. It doesn’t impact us much today but could in a major way in the future.