Europe is a much larger population - 747 million
As well as the EU - 446 million
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My point wasn’t that I want to implement what Europe is doing long term but to look at their current policy of handling thing crisis as a 1 time fix short term like they do then back off once this is over. We can learn from what other nations do best vs denigrating them just bc their deemed socialist etc. Europe’s system of direct payments to companies is working vs us letting brand names go under and workers loses their houses. Basically of admin is trying to do what Europe has done but it’s chaotic bc it’s confusing business loans and each state with its own unemployment system which has failed. Anyone wanting pure capitalism will suffer badly in these crises. Didn’t our gov Bail our countless businesses in 2008 and under FDR and now? Gov has a place and we need to work this out out but now gov intervention is the only savior now then once over we go back to pure capitalism. When times are good , capitalism is the way to go but we need both sometimes , especially now.
Purp, there are a whole lot of free countries in the world. Perhaps you meant to say the freeist country because we may have less restrictions of any country in the world. I say “may” because I don’t know what kind of restrictions other countries may have or not have.
I do know that most Americans balk at being told what to do – even in pandemics.
Red, true and I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that no generation in 60 years has had to make any sort of real national sacrifice. You know maybe boomers with Vietnam, but even that wasn’t the same thing as ration cards and a national call to arms and such.
But also there are just large swath of Americans and always have been just hard headed dolts who just refuse to be team players even for a little bit.
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I think it more has to do with the fact that as a nation we just don’t trust government as much as we used to, if we ever did. We don’t trust the numbers, we don’t trust the press, we are just a untrusting people when it comes to government.
If we were in a WWII type scenario, I think we would be more willing to put our personal liberties aside a bit, but that’s about it. There’s nothing like awakening a sleeping giant and filling him with a terrible resolve.
(Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, who planned the attack on Pearl Harbor reportedly wrote in his diary, “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”)
Maybe the problem this time around was that the “shared sacrifice” wasn’t shared at all. When you look who economically got hurt and who didn’t, you realize this devastated small businesses and low to moderate income individuals. Big business and the wealthy did just fine.
We shut down small businesses because there was a social distancing problem but we are okey dokey with food lines. What if in the spirit of “shared sacrifice” the government taxed your income 50% to help all people who got hurt in the shutdown? Fair, right? Shared pain, right? We are all in this together, right?
As someone so eloquently put it “we maybe in the same ocean, but we aren’t in the same boat”.
applause, applause, applause!!!
Yamamoto was talking about not only our manufacturing capabilities to wage war but the resolve of the American people. From what I see and hear we might be able to bring back the manufacturing but the American resolve to protect their country with their life has disappeared from many.
Far too many have taken Kennedy’s famous line and reversed it.
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We might not be in the same boat but some took the time to build an ark and others waited for someone to give them a life raft. We can argue opportunity all day long but I know personally this country affords everyone the opportunity to build an ark. It is up to the individual.
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I totally agree WoodMark. The sanctimony that I hear and read spewed about “shared sacrifice” makes me want to ask “what exactly are you sharing?”. The wealthy and government protected class have taken a “let them eat cake” attitude from the beginning. Their “we care about human lives” platitudes translates as “we care about our lives and my job is protected so I can make fun of the people who are worried about losing their businesses.”
You are right, people are getting very resentful and when the stimulus money runs out and the foreclosure and eviction moratoriums run out, those resentful people will gravitate towards real anger.
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Imauhcoog, I get the America is the land of opportunity and not a guaranty thing and I agree with that. But if you owned a bar and you were shut down and then you spent the money to restock your bar and your kitchen and you did everything according to the law. Then you reopened according to the law but then you were shut down by the state a second time. The reasoning for shutting you down was, we don’t have the enforcement to ensure that you are compliant and we think you are the cause of the spread so we are shutting you down. Explain to me what opportunity did you have?
The reason bars were shut down was that a bunch of young folks who thought they were invincible packed them irresponsibly and started testing positive…when the tracing was done, a lot of it was linked to bars so they were shut down.
People need to take responsibility for their actions too IMO.
But yes bad for bar owners. Governments need to step up and offer more PP loans, and this time make sure big corporations don’t gobble them up, so that they can weather the storm.
Same point as above. There are solutions to protect the livelihood of the public without putting their health at risk.
We will need more stimulus and this time a more targeted version that specifically is directed to people and businesses that are in a dire situation. Pass the bill to the wealthy and big corporations in the form of taxes. There is a shared risk at a macro level. Big corporations like Amazon and the wealthy will ultimately suffer if the middle class discretionary income gets demolished by COViD, and also if the infections and deaths are out of control for an extended period of time.
You had the opportunity to open the bar in the first place and to make a good living in normal times. These are not normal times.
You also had the opportunity to elect those that are telling you to shut down your bar while others are allowed to roam the streets unchecked. That is the real problem. Take the opportunity in November to make sure that doesnt happen again.
The virus is here and the cat is out of the bag. Saying how we should have prepared is unreasonable and so is suggesting we have the ability to bail everyone out. This is an unprecedented disaster of a lifetime and everyone needs to do what they can to help. Personal responsibility is a good start. Putting political bickering aside is another good beginning. Just think about all the millions being funneled to “causes” right now that could be funneled to food banks and housing.
Does anyone really believe the twenty somethings are sitting at home sheltering in place because they shut down the bars?
They are not congregating in masses with strangers though.
Here is the thing, if we do not flatten the curve we are on we will very quickly get to a catastrophic level. Its just math at this point. Once you arrive there, bars will suffer either way because people will not be patronizing bars at a level that will allow them to cover the variable costs involved with opening. So it is better to shut them down for a couple of weeks, give them a lifeline in the form of stimulus to cover fixed costs, and then reopen when it is truly safe to do so.
By keeping everything open, we do more long-term financial harm than good.
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Bars were not nearly as packed as the paint department at the Lowe’s out here in Cypress. That was packed.
Government picking winners and losers.
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Yes, let’s please talk about these richly paid “protected” teachers who do nothing but sit on their butts, count the commas on their pay checks, and look at their lucrative 401K’s. Curious, do you think I should also receive that 30% paycut you desire on August 24 when I return to a building of 2000+ for 8 hours a day? Do you think that’s intelligent policy? I’m honestly very excited to return to work in the building, but you crapping on teachers is a low blow. You think teachers took the pandemic off? I worked doubly hard, securing computers and internet hotspots for my students, holding zoom lessons at all hours of the day and night so that my students would not fall behind, and essentially being an untrained mental health professional for 150 teenagers. I don’t belong to a teachers union, because I don’t think they are necessary in my profession, but it’s kind of bush league to speak out of your backside on something you really know nothing about. If you think teachers have it easy, I have it on good authority that every district in the state is hiring. Step up and make a difference.
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Ok how about limiting the number of people inside a bar and if you have an outdoor venue allowing for more capacity.
I can tell you great certainly the bar crowd just moved to someone’s house or to underground bars (which there are many in Houston). It is like we are in the era of the speakeasy.
We should shut everything down for 2 weeks then. Everything. Grocery stores, amazon, usps, everything.
By allowing a few chosen winners this will carry on. Of course it will carry on and have a 1% death rate for old people, but it will carry on.
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So first my main thing here was the make thing. And people are being huge babies and irresponsible children about the.
Well this is where I’m going to start to getting into getting flagged territory. Of course big business and wealthy made out fine. They always do, they never feel the pain the same way. The sacrifice is never the same, ever.
I like the group who are calling for the teacher’s union to take pay cuts. Like somehow they’re the ones ruining the shared sacrifice for everyone. Which is a bleeper-blanking joke
Unlike the major corporations airlines especially who doesn’t their trillions in tax savings in stock buybacks then cry poor, or somehow allowing huge companies to take full advantage of the available aid because of their relationships with major banking institutions instead of small businesses who desperately needed it. But sure it’s the teacher’s union and federal employees who combined probably don’t have the income of a singular Walton. Get out of here with that bleeper-blanking nonsense. If we required the same sacrifice of the wealthy that we require of the rest of us. They’d still be really wealthy and everyone else would be in a better spot. Or go with Woodmark… Bleed those lazy middle classers!