Peace talks

This is the latest from European news outlets after the latest talks.
putin wants Crimea to be officially recognized under russian status.
The second demand if to have Ukraine become a “neutral” country without NATO membership.
They have agreed for further talks.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.

Putin doesn’t dictate other nations’ foreign policy to them. That’s a violation of their sovereignty, independence, and right to self-determination.

No way they agree on the NATO point.

Just say NO to Putin. Given that things aren’t going Russia’s way at this point, I see no reason that they would be forced to concede that, unless there’s a major reversal on ground.


Yep Putin has rightly f’ed himself it seems. His failure to achieve a quick knockout has him in a bad spot for negotiating. He’s in avoiding humiliation/ consequences at home mode now. If he got those two things he’s demanding now he can bring everyone home and call it a victory. The longer this goes the worse it is for him, both at home, economically, and the possibility of it going real badly for him as aid and hardware flow to the Ukrainians that there could be a major counter offensive in the future if heavy weapons start following to the Ukrainians.

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The sanctions are already working - if an agreement is to be made, it has to be to Russia’s disadvantage. Also, it will be one the Ukrainian government negotiates. The entire West is united against the expansionist policies of Putin.

Let’s not squander this for a cheap out. He or somebody like him will be back again trying to take what isn’t his to have. Almost for certain, Ukraine will not agree to demilitarize. To the contrary, they will spend whatever it takes to be armed to the teeth so Russia will be loathe to try another invasion.

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Russia has to pay Ukraine damages at this point.

We need to give him an out. Save face so he can say he achieved his objectives and announce we go home. The out has to be worked out by Ukrainian and Russian diplomats. Don’t want to back him into a corner.

Heavyweight Champ Evander Holyfeld said when in H.S. guys try to bully him, he would run, when they caught up to him, he said, “he would give them a beat down.”

We won’t allow Putin to achieve his objectives of a guarantee of no NATO membership, demilitarization of Ukraine, and a government favorable to him as a matter of principle.

That would amount to a surrender…effectively handing Putin victory. That’s how you definite victory in war in Clauswitzean terms: whether or not you achieve the underlying political objectives for which you are fighting.

Putin needs to learn to accept defeat…and the sovereignty/right to self-determination of his neighbors.

If he doesn’t…then it’s a defeat for Ukraine, which is something that none of us want, because once Putin knows that he can force a neighbor to submit to his will…then WHO’S NEXT???

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You can judge all you want. What matters is that they are talking and what is the best compromise for both. The U.S. foreign diplomacy has failed after 1991 to fully “connect” with Russia. Instead we extended NATO and by doing so sent the worst message to putin and more importantly the Russian population. It galvanized putin and made him what he is today. Russian people are proud people. Why and what rights did we have to further isolate them by extending NATO? President Reagan “preached” the exact opposite to what he worked so hard for.

Could putin accepts that Ukraine become an EU member and not a NATO member? Who knows.
We in the West except for President Reagan have not understood what the russian empire is all about. It is an empire that goes back centuries. The first present day Ukrainian/Russia settlers that started the empire were Viking settlers coming from Sweden while Norwegians/Danish Vikings went to Normandie. Even King Harald went from Normandie to Ukraine to fight invaders.
Here is a quick glance:
Norway's ties to Kiev run long and deep - Norway's News in English —
Quick forward to present day Russia and yes a hige majority of Russians feel that Ukraine is Russia and always has been. This is not me saying so but this is the Russian sentiment. It did not start in 2014 but centuries ago. The Ukrainian population living in Russia is estimated between 2M’s to 3M’s+… This gives you another perspective of how the two are inter-connected.
There is one clear Russian “feeling” and it is about Europe. Russians do not want to get away from Europe. This is the real “putin’s achilles heel”. By disconnecting himself from Europe all Russian “specialists” come to the same conclusion about putin losing its “grip”
Let’s all hope there is a pathway to peace.

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Putin needs one way out and that is in a pine box. Good riddance to bad rubbish.


A compromise that involves a promise that Ukraine will never join NATO is no compromise.

That’s a victory for Putin and a defeat for Ukraine, according to Clauswitz.

Not happening.

It’s good that they are talking, but if those are Russia’s peace terms, then they should be REJECTED.

That’s not a peace.

That’s a surrender.

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Will putin accepts that Ukraine joins the EU? This IMO a key point to these talks.

I don’t think Putin has the right to tell them otherwise.

It’s Ukraine’s choice…NOT Russia’s.

It’s THEIR foreign policy decision, not Russia’s. The minute Russia has a veto power over another nation’s foreign policy decisions, then that country has lost its sovereignty, independence, and right to self-determination.

That’s wrong.

Just like the NATO thing…giving in to Putin on that would be tantamount to a surrender, and give Putin a strategic victory…one which few other than Pro-Putin morons want to see him given.

That’s one of the very things that he’s fighting to achieve.


Send like we should also be negotiating with the oligarchs long term wise. As these are the people most likely to affect long term changes. All these guys are not just rich but Crassus “you can afford an army rich”. You keep them in vices until they decide it’s time to change things up.

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We may never gather this much support again. Together, the West must make Putin a totally ineffectual leader, which means deflating his aura of invincibility. Once a tyrant isn’t feared, he’s toast.

Let’s not squander this opportunity, while being careful to not overplay our hand.

So the big b long term issue here is that there is no “reformer” in the wings if Putin gets bounced. The person he seemingly regards as his greatest threat is Navalny who isn’t that different than him outside of being a major anti-corruption champion.

What are the odds of the peace talks being a ruse? Get the Ukrainian pres there to “arrest” him. Better yet a plane crash. It already happened to Poland not to long ago.

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Valid point. You can never discount anything

If I were Ukraine I would be demanding peace terms to Russia, not the other way around.

The West is about to bleed Russia white.

Saw a interview years ago, former Secretary of Defense and former A&M President Robert Gates ( I’ll forgive him for that I digress) when asked how Putin will go in the end, he said feet first.