Ukraine

Who’s country is it, anyway?

Russia has 90k troops on the border. For what?

I think that Russia wants to take it back. Remember, it was under Nikita that he “allowed” them to be their own country, but most of the people there (just like in the Crimea) speak Russian and consider themselves as such. They are not a threat, but a buffer…my thoughts…

I read that the narrative of “Crimea considers themselves Russian” was not entirely accurate. Apparently there were large segments that did not want any part of Russia because they did not like Putin and saw how terrible his country’s economy was doing. Not that Crimea’s was much better, but it was a little more complicated than Crimea simply accepting Russian annexation.

What is interesting to me is that Ukraine is a whole different animal. Ukraine has been shouting for years about Russian’s interest in occupation. I don’t like that they are not militarily potent enough to at least mound a force at their border. Are they completely dependent on NATO and the US to deter Russia?

Manny,
I agree, total complacency leads to an inability to act/defend. Now, if a small occupying force of Russians come over, then what would/could NATO do? Then what happens when Russia shuts off the oil to Europe?

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Perhaps what NATO can do preemptively is to simply begin to amass a small force of their own on the Ukrainian side to act as a show of force. Militarily, I believe this is not ideal because that would be considered an escalation and a step away from a skirmish or war.

But I don’t think there are many hands to play at this point but to bring NATO in now to at least make Russia second guess their motives.

You make a really good point about Russian shutting off the oil to Europe. That is one chess move that Putin has that can mess things up for everyone. But the draw back will be that they will begin to lose money. Couple that loss with what I hope will be US economic sanctions and you have a terrible situation for Russia. The wildcard, in my opinion, is Russian resolve. How far are they willing to go to take over Ukraine?

I get the cultural, historical and even egotistical reasons why Putin would want to annex Ukraine. But on a practical matter, does Ukraine offer resources that Russia doesn’t have already?

Think of Ukraine like Texas… Except with people who are not afraid to put their tails on the line for their State / Country.

Russia and China are on the move again. We got a 30 year break from it but its back on again.

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I just meet a person last week who said with much pride they are Ukrainian.

Russia can withstand sanctions as they have tremendous natural resources and now have a friend in the Chinese who, BTW, we get EVERYTHING from.

Don’t call then weak for sure

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I remember hearing , long ago , that the Ukraine was the breadbasket of the USSR.
Not sure if I heard or remember that correctly or if they are still an agricultural powerhouse.

But I’m curious to know what Ukraine wants to counter the Putin-skins. Do they want to
invite foreign troops or is that too dangerous ? Do they want or need weapons ? If so, do they have the military discipline to actually fight or would they fold at first encounter ? Logistically, it appears to me Russia has a huge advantage here if things get hot. Sanctions, are the least amount of action we can take, besides doing nothing at all. But perhaps you start that as your first
negotiation ploy. Trouble is, I don’t time is on the Ukrainian side. If Russia moves, it could be over
relatively quickly. No time for sanctions to work. Our response of Crimea, was not exactly stop
you in your tracks type action.

Chess tournament. It’s serious business over there.

Yes they were/are Russia’s breadbasket

Was watching a summary of Russia/USSR aggressive tactics since WW2 with
an assessment of west’s response.

1956 Hungary Fail
1968 Czech. Fail
1980 Poland. Success !
2014 Crimea Fail
2021 Ukraine. ?

Is that an accurate and complete list and assessment ?

Agree…but just to be nit picky , Crimea was only 7 years ago. And China, imho, hasn’t been
nearly as aggressive. They seem to have emerged from their long slumber over last few years as
their economy has boomed since recognition from the west. They just don’t , up until now at least,
seem to have been nearly as aggressive as Russia. But the modern China is a new animal for sure.
What say you ?

They clearly are getting aggressive towards Taiwan. Right now they are testing our resolve. Both Russia and China sense a vacuum created by the U.S. and general weakness by the U.S… History has proven people wrong who have underestimated our strength and our resolve.

This will launch a million posts of whose fault it is but this era were we are focusing on what separates Americans as opposed to what we all agree on is dangerous period. America for all of its faults is the greatest country this world has ever seen. It is a country that has done more good and brought more freedom to this world than any other country. We are the good guys.

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Yes, definitely right about Taiwan; slipped my mind. But I see it more as result of China
becoming an economic superpower and wanting to assert their will now.

Is the vacuum and weakness you speak of due to the divided America we have now ?

I think so. We as Americans are pulling apart and there is so much that we agree upon. But the media plays it up as we are hopelessly divided nation.

I think they are both surprised by how easily they are manipulating the media on both sides of the political spectrum. I am convinced they are behind the media manipulation.

We have to get our heads wrapped around the danger of news as entertainment. That applies to both sides. News as entertainment is now one quarter entertainment, one quarter real news and two quarters political propaganda. Both sides do it and both sides hang their hats on the quarter real news as proof that they are a legitimate news source when in reality three quarters of it is entertainment and propaganda. We have to figure this out. It used to be news outlets reported the news and when they were voicing their opinion they clearly marked it as opinion/commentary. We don’t do that anymore and I believe its being manipulated by our enemies to divide us.

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Well, I recall some issues in Georgia in the 1990’s. And, Crimea is part of the Ukraine or at least it was. Historically, it is Russian territory though.

Let’s see, Afghanistan in the '80s.

Yeah, I think Afghanistan fits in there too now that you mention it. It was a failure
for them after a 10 year battle(1979-1989), and I guess that failure was partially or mostly due to
US supplying arms to the rebels. That an accurate summary ?

Just reading up now on Russia’s invasion of Georgia in 2008. Is that the instance you were referring to ?

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