I’m kinda bothered by that. Can you explain your point?
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I have no idea what your talking about…seriously.
I said UH defense gave up 5 TDS vs Memphis…is that not true? What numbers did I change? We are talking about scoring defense correct?
Uh allowed 1.9 points in 1st quarter. How is that not a fact? You can decide your not impressed by it because it doesn’t support your agenda…but it’s a fact. It’s also a fact that UH ranked #1 in the category…which bothers you too
That encompasses Manster’s entire ordeal. Stats can be misused to represent whatever the person is arguing. Outside of mathematical disciplines, stats are only “trends” and not factual. Case and point, Manster trying to argue scoring defense is elite, while manipulating numbers, and pulling games out to represent his point. It’s important to look at who we’ve played and what they rank in each category before quoting misrepresenting numbers. In fact, these “facts” are disputable, because they are not “facts”.
Dude you posted as if we turned the ball over, and during that turnover, the opposing defense scored. Giving up defensive touchdowns is it’s own category. The norm is to assume that offense scores and the defense stops the offense. You made as if we had like 5 pick six’s in the Memphis and Tulsa games. lol
So you’re saying Manster is wrong because we didn’t play anyone good this year?
No I’m saying, we can’t assume that us having X or Y ranking will translate to everyone we play. He’s quoting the Defensive rankings(Stats) as if they’re absolute. That’s false. That’s also not how football is played (each game has it’s own identity). Take those rankings into next game vs Fresno State, they beat us by 50 or we beat them by 50, our stat ranking becomes inflated and everything that was argued before has changed! That’s why we hear “we’re much better than that”, or “they were not that good” at lot. Tulsa is an extreme outlier. We gave up more than our inflated average, and scored less than our inflated average. What did our ranking do after that game? Improve or get worse? Was that game and those stats indicative of how good/bad this team is? Probably not. See the reason why stats are not “facts” now?
I don’t think Manster was saying that at all. I think we all realize, or should, that stats are based on the past. Here’s good example of how all statistics represent facts but they don’t always correlate. Or do they?
I guess if games were only a half, we would have kicked butt. It’s that pesky final score thing that trumps all stats.
Please tell me you didn’t major in Mathematics or Statistics at UH, because this post could sully the good name of our beloved university.
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My favorite is homicide rates increase when Ice Cream sales increase.
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The logic is sound. Are you ok?
haha Hey, it’s a fact, because all stats correlate to truth!
I understand what you’re saying and I agree with you. But I don’t think Manster is guilty of manipulating the stats to shape his argument.
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He was, slightly. My whole point was not to disagree with said “facts” it was to point out what could be a reason for the inconsistency defensively. That’s why I kept referencing scheme. All of this is Cary-over(pun intended) from another post, and hopefully coming to an end soon. lol
You guys… Stats are facts (assuming they are verified stats). Now if you are making an argument or point using stats to back it up, it does not necessarily make that point a fact. That doesn’t mean the stats used aren’t facts (a thing that is indisputably the case). Ex: Stat, UH is 34th in scoring defense in FBS. That is a fact. Using that stat to say UH has a great defense, doesn’t make the statement a fact, but it doesn’t make the stat not a fact.
Short version: When you say “stats are not facts”, you sound like an Aggie.
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I never said anything D gave up vs Memphis was due to.our offensive turnovers. We allowed 5 TDS period and specials allowed a KO ret.
As far a Tulsa…Postma fumbled with 30 seconds left and was returned for TD…so defense had nothing to do with it. The offense had interceptions returned to 1 yard line and 6 yard line in this game…my point being that these scoring situations had nothing to do with defense or DC…and had significant effect on game momentum . Fair?
As far as manipulating numbers…I explained that D didn’t actually give up avg 15.2 pts in 2nd half…because there was a 3rd qtr KO ret vs Memp and Postma 4th qtr fumble vs Tulsa…so if you pull the 14 pts…it’s 14.0 points actually allowed.
D first half Avg of 7.8 needs no adjustment as all points scored vs UH were by opposing offenses. Make sense?
The NCAA is just lazy, they have categories called “Offensive Scoring” yet it includes defensive TDS and Special teams TDS. “defensive Scoring” includes points scored by opposing defenses and by specials.
For example…UT stats for this year are skewed…the defense scored 6 TDS…but NCAA gives those 42 pts to offense…which would change UT offense scoring by 4.2 pts if played say 10 games. That can move them 20 or 30 spits up in ranking.
The site I use has a category called “Offensive points scored” and “Opponent Offensive Pts Scored”. In which they remove specials TDS and points scored by opposing defenses. But for the Scoring by qtr or half, they use the NCAA method, so have back out those points. So I’m not manipulating anything.
UH faced 4 of top 10 Offensive Scoring teams…Memphis, Arizona, USF and SMU, and TT ranked in 30’s…so how was it we faced bad offenses? ECU and Tulsa also had rankings in top half.
I brought up last year because you mentioned Rice, I guess to say they stink so our stats aren’t legitimate. We didn’t play any FCS this year…I think UH one of only 32 FBS out of 130 that didn’t. My point was that UH had two 60 point wins last year vs FCS Lamar and N Texas, should we wipe those out too?
Agree with everything you said. I named the thread “Impressive Defensive Stats” not “UH Defense is Elite”…for the reasons you mention
Just say you don’t like CMD…would make you look better.
I didn’t make up this stat. I came across it and said” wow UH played some really good 1st quarter defense”. That’s it.
I didn’t say we will beat Fresno because of it or beat Oklahoma in 2019. I looked a little further, as site keeps stats for past 15 years, and said how good is 1.9 ? Turned out only 5 other teams have been equal or better since 2013…that’s pretty good.
The reason points allowed is a good barometer…not perfect…is because it doesn’t account for “schemes “. Regardless of what style offense or defense you play, it comes down to points scored and allowed.
Well, stats are just data points. Several together can make a trend. But on their own they have no meaning. Applying meaning can create a fact, or not, but the stat itself does not create the meaning nor qualify a statement as a fact. That qualification is based on comparison to reality, independent of preconceived notions. You can try to tell any story with neutral stats, but the results of actual evaluation establish facts.
If it’s truth you’re looking for, Dr Tyee’s philosophy class is right down the hall.
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