We can support them being sovereign which I agree with but nato is the diff ballgame which is Russia’s main concern.
And guess what? One of the most fundamental aspects of sovereignty is the ability to independently choose one’s allies.
If the Ukraine needs a permission slip from Russia to enter into an alliance, and/or, Russia has a veto power over any alliance Ukraine might want to enter into, then I would argue that Ukraine is not truly a sovereign, independent nation, but rather, a Russian puppet or client state.
Or at least, if we give Russia our blessing on this, that’s how it would appear, and that would be a VERY bad precedent to set.
Given that we don’t want to create that impression, set that precedent, and, just like the UN and the rest of the world, recognize and support Ukraine’s sovereignty and independence, we won’t.
We’ll support Ukraine in that regard. Don’t look for that to change, regardless of who is in charge.
But now we started a new Cold War with Russia and we still have China to deal with and we’re running out of money to fund these disputes. If we asked tax payers to increase taxes and let them have their say , we could stop some of this. Right now, no new taxes but the debt goes up for each conflict. Iraq and Afghanistan costs prob 4 trillion at least or more.
I recently read some info about the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. I was in High School then and we’ll remember the fear we all had.
In 1961 JFK installed Jupiter Missiles in Turkey. Their technology required lots of time to load and launch. Thus they were not defensive. Their only real use was for a “First Strike”.
Nikita knew this and objected. He felt threatened. We did nothing.
In 1962 he returned the favor. He wanted the US to also feel threatened, Tit for Tat.
Our Military advised that these Missiles did not really change the Balance of Power. Their Subs were already off our coasts, etc. DeGaulle felt the same way. They lived daily with nuclear threats from nearby. Get used to it.
The Political solution was to act tough with a Naval blockade, which actually was an Act of War. The solution was offered by Nikita early on. Remove the Turkey Missiles and I remove mine, That is exactly what happened. Installed in 1961 they were removed in 1963. Had not been there even 2 years. Bobby Kennedy accepted a Letter from Nikita to which he agreed, then told their Ambassador to keep the Letter so no proof could be found amongst his records.
Problem solved, one which JFK invented and then reversed.The Soviet Union got exactly what it wanted and never fired a shot, The blockade was for show, provided good optics at home.
Look for similar optics in The Ukraine fiasco. Putin wants something and he will get it. And our President will claim victory, just in time for Mid-Terms. Like in October of 1962, just before the November Mid-Terms.
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Don’t look for our policy to change. If we change it for Ukraine, the message it sends is this: we can bully the USA into doing whatever we want. Russia won’t stop at Ukraine if we give in on that. It’ll do the same with other neighbors and expect the same results.
It’s just like dealing with Hitler. We learned that appeasing Hitler and giving into his demands was a bad idea. It just sends the message that he can get more and more by using the same sort of tactics.
We won’t make the same mistake with Putin that we made with Hitler, i.e., appeasement.
Appeasement is BAD Bro. Just BAD. Not sure why you keep advocating it in this case.
Don’t surrender to bullies. They’ll just keep bullying you if you do.
Now then, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. IF Russia invades because we won’t give in (and we won’t, nor should we), we are not likely to attempt to defend Ukraine, given that they aren’t a part of NATO, and Russia is nuclear armed.
But there may be other instruments of national power (diplomatic, informational, and economic) that we could bring to bear.
The one thing potentially holding everything up is Germany. They’ve been a BAD ally. If Biden has truly convinced them to give up Nord Stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine, then great. But I can tell you this much. Neither Trump, nor Biden, have had ANY success in getting Germany to give it up yet. And without Germany on board, the rest of NATO is going to be reluctant to act.
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The message from Germany is currently ambiguous.
On the one hand, the German chancellor says that the US and Germany are united on this.
But he hasn’t directly stated that Germany will shut the pipeline down if Russia invades.
“If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the … border of Ukraine again, then there will be … no longer a Nord Stream 2. We, we will bring an end to it,” Biden said. Asked how, given the project is in German control, Biden said: “I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.”
Scholz said the United States and Germany had the same approach to Ukraine, to Russia and to sanctions, but did not directly confirm the Nord Stream 2 plans or mention the pipeline publicly by name over the course of his day-long visit.
Whether the United States and Germany are on the same page over the $11 billion project has become a crucial question as the two major democracies lead NATO allies in pushback against Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Russia has amassed some 100,000 troops near the Ukraine border. It denies it is planning an invasion. U.S. officials say an attack could occur within days or weeks.
Scholz, under fire at home and abroad for what has been seen as insufficient leadership in the crisis, told reporters Russia would pay a very high price if it invaded Ukraine and said Germany and the United States had the same approach.
“We will be united. We will act together. And we will take all the necessary steps,” Scholz said in English.
Law97: Problem, he never promises that they’ll shut the pipeline down…and consider the following:
*Even before the pipeline starts flowing, Germany uses Russian gas to cover half its needs. t delayed approval of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline until at least the second half of 2022, but has refused to cancel the nearly completed project.
Gas will go to $5 a gal here but it will help the Houston economy at least. Russia is the 2nd largest producer.
and don’t forget Crimea…they already snagged it
Absolutely.
And they won’t stop if we appease them.
The Germans are all in…they sent a bunch of helmets to Ukraine:rofl:
It could be a very cold winter in Germany.
That was such a joke. Doing nothing would have looked better.
You keep writing the same “mirage” optics.
biden LIFTED all possible Nord Stream sanctions this past December againt…
…his own security council and Intel. He also endangered our very own soldiers in Afghanistan against the advice of his own…military leaders.
For once and for all stop making excuses for biden. The mainstream media told us Big bad horrible Trump would take us to nuclear war. Remember when I wrote how horrible the mainstream media was toward Trump? Now didn’t we all watched, heard and that this current Ukraine standoff could lead us to nuclear war? Who is seating behind the big desk?
Who was seating behind the big desk when Crimea was retaken by Russia?
You tell us about American policy.
You tell us about protecting our allies.
We recognized Taiwan as its own republic. Republic of China that is. Then what happened and what did we do to the same Taiwan/Rep of China?
We bent over, our d.c. swamp politicians bent over to the ccp. Today we no longer recognize Taiwan as its country. How is that for full support of Taiwan?
You keep writing of NATO. What good NATO is if one of its main component smooches to…the same rusdia. Friends keep in mind that we have been on Germany since the Marschal plan while spending $Trilions since then. Pay your fair share he said. We know why they don’t.
No one is making excuses for Biden. His work in Afghanistan was damnable. So was Trump’s, for that matter. Why did Trump negotiate with/surrender to Jihadi terrorists? Why did he exclude Afghanistan’s legitimately elected government in the negotiations? Bad. Stop making excuses for TRUMP on that one. DAMN HIM.
Don’t bet on a nuclear war over Ukraine. We are NOT on the brink. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) prevents it. As I stated, if Russia invades, we will NOT fight them because we are under no obligation to. At this point, Ukraine is not a member of NATO. But hopefully, we’ll sanction the crap out of Russia for it. Germany might get in the way though. DAMN THEM!!!
We do NOT recognize Taiwan, and only recognize one China, Communist China. You may not like that, but it is what it is, and was likewise so under Trump (take notice).
We consider the China/Taiwan situation to be “unresolved.” We do have informal relations with Taiwan and sell them schitttons of weapons to help them defend themselves. Our military meets with theirs; we had engagements with Taiwan’s military when I stationed as a Foreign Area Officer with the US Army Pacific HQ in Hawaii. When our military meets with theirs, it is in civilian clothes rather than in uniform, due to their lack of recognition.
Why did we stop recognizing Taiwan and start recognizing one China…Communist China?
The answer is because we needed the PRC as a partner (note: NOT an ally, of course, but a partner) in both a) bringing down the Soviet Union, b) helping us against the USSR in Afghanistan, and c) becoming a potential trade partner. Also, because we wanted all of those benefits, we agreed to look the other way on human rights abuses and totalitarianism. It is what it is. Foreign relations aren’t always black and white.
Carter was in office in 1979 when that happened, and we severed formal diplomatic with Taiwan at that time. MOST other nations in the world have done the same. Only a small number of countries recognize both, and I’m guessing very, VERY few (if any) only recognize Taiwan. We have chosen not to under every subsequent administration…including Trump (again, take notice!).
That’s been true under Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama, TRUMP (emphasis added)…and Biden.
If that’s the wrong policy, then why don’t you criticize Trump for keeping it and not changing it? Just curious. Sounds a bit hypocritical on your part. As I said, stop making excuses for Trump. I don’t make them for Biden the way that you do for Trump.
As for your question as to what good is NATO…good question. Maybe it presents a united “free world” alliance, mostly of “free” countries (with perhaps an exception or two; not sure Turkey is free) against less than free countries like Russia and Belarus.
Maybe?
Just a thought.
But as I mentioned, Germany has been the weakest link in NATO, and they are a problem in the Ukraine. Trump failed to get them off NordStream 2, and so far, so has Biden. As I posted before, they didn’t do Jack in the 1st Gulf War, did LESS than Jack in Iraq, and barely did Jack in Afghanistan; had to be fired from the police trainer mission there.
DAMN THEM!!!
Don’t blame me. Don’t blame Biden. I don’t have a good explanation for Germany’s uber-pacifism and lack of willingness to unite with the rest of NATO.
Maybe you can go talk to them and straighten them out. We’ll see how long they are willing to listen. Trump couldn’t do it, so maybe you can do a better job. Have at it!
Does that answer all of your questions? Good.
Now, maybe read this to get an education on the whole China/Taiwan thing.
It wasn’t a popular decision at the time, and Congress responded by passing laws that created a grant of unofficial/informal relations giving Taiwan most of the same privileges as recognized countries. Federal law permits arms sales to Taiwan, but expressly FORBIDS them to the PRC, if that makes you feel any better.
But if your hero Trump wasn’t willing to change that policy, then I can’t imagine you’d expect any other administration to do so.
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Putin will get Nordstream finalized via his current action plan.
The current European Gas transmission goes thru Ukraine. By occupying them Putin can literally cut off the supply.
Krushshev got our missiles out of Turkey by putting missiles in Cuba. Worked like a charm.
Putin gets his new pipeline, then goes home. Nary a shot fired, plus everyone pledges to keep Ukraine out of NATO.
Putin wins twice, goes horseback riding shirtless and laughs all the way back to Moscow.
Should we hire Putin to run our Country?
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I think Putin is testing the west on many fronts. Will we capitulate. What are the various countries actions at this time? Similar to them flying dry runs with their bombers to test air defense.
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Can’t afford capitulation believe you me Xi is paying very close attention on how we handle this challenge. The wolves are circling
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Do you think Germany would cut off their supply to spite Russia. Let’s see, if you invade we will cut off our own arm in protest… Uummm, I don’t think so.
Answer: you may be right.
As the old game show used to say…You (Germany) ARE the weakest link…GOODBYE!!!
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You are too biased to omit that Trump had conditions for us to leave Afghanistan. This was a step by step plan. Only then would we have left. Keep omitting this critical point every chance you get. Why do you is clearly driven for your Trump’s admiration. We had been there for 20 years or so, You and the d.c. swamp wanted to stay there. You stated that we were making progress. Clearly we did not. Hence the way Kabul fell. You and others wanted to keep spending $Trillions for nothing to show in return. You and I know what Afghanistan was before the soviets got there. You very well know that Afghanistan itself is not per say a country. My sister’s husband reported from there on many occasions. I too have friends that have served there. They redefine bureaucracy every time they speak about their stay. Keep applauding the swamp. Again that is your choice. This entire mess should have been handled long ago by the U.N. not us. Wait what is the U.N. for and what are the U.N. forces are for? Aren’t precisely “designed” for this? The U.N. just like our d.c. swamp is good at spending other people’s money and getting rich at the same time. You love that that is your choice. It clearly got us nowhere. There was never a clear long term strategy. The d.c swamp thought that by installing a so called “American way” it could convert the locals to our “idea” of freedom. The real reason behind it was for the swamp to make more money. The “bill” is crystal clear from pelosi, mcconnel and others they benefited making $M’s pushing for military contracts and other “special interests” pelosi’s own husband is at the very center of benefiting from arms deals. This is the dirty picture that you do not bring up uhlaw97. d.c. dirty prostitutes politicians are getting rich at our expense and more importantly at our soldiers expense. President Reagan would have never allowed this and the spending going on for 20 years.
Taiwan? How did the ccp behave with Taiwan when Trump was President? Be honest with yourself the difference is again crystal clear. The ccp is power playing Taiwan just like russia is power playing Ukraine due to the ice cream man,
You write that we needed an ally against the soviets, a trade partner, benefits you say…
ARE YOU MAYBE TALKING ABOUT d.c. swamp POLITICIANS? Isn’t more like it?
President Reagan was against it and put the brakes on it after he got elected. The biggest “sell out” period happened when clinton took over. Look it up the ccp/chinese led companies “big guys” overnights White House stays are well documented. This coincides with another wave of U.S. manufacturing going overseas. Why because the swamp aided china and made it this much harder for U.S. manufacturing. I wrote it earlier. All of our universities are in “Kahoots” with China. How in the world could this even happen? It happened/happening due to the d.c. swamp. Get yourself a copy of this book. You will love it and thank me for suggesting it to you.
