Covid-19 comparison

COVID
41

Uh, that would be a hard pass…lol

I personally would love to know, I think I know most of it but there is always something to learn. But that would take us to ‘flagged’ territory.

But it does bring up a good question…(let’s keep racism out)…has our medical system hurt us in the containment of the virus.

“The U.S. spends more on health care as a share of the economy — nearly twice as much as the average OECD country — yet has the lowest life expectancy and highest suicide rates among the 11 nations. The U.S. has the highest chronic disease burden and an obesity rate that is two times higher than the OECD.”

Blacks and Hispanics have been the hardest hit ethnic groups by covid.

Per the Kaiser foundation - The number in the US of uninsured:
whites 8%
Black 11%
Hispanics 19%.

It becomes harder to contain when people who get paid hourly have to decide if they go to work or go to the doctor. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and the financial impact on seeking care is a huge one for many.

“In this pandemic we are only as strong as our most medically vulnerable people”.

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42

Hah! I’ll just go ahead and flag myself.

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43

Let’s be clear friends.
Who infected the world with this virus and should we make them accountable?
I will let you respond.
Could we do or have done better?
#1 we stopped flights coming from china.
How was that received? The individual that took the decision was called a racist.
You think I am making this up look it up.
#2 Some individuals were having a great time outdoor in the San Francisco Chinese district proclaiming that there was no danger with this virus.
You think I am making this up? Look it up.
#3 Our own CDC started with conflicting messages.
You think I am making this up? Look it up.
Was it the case in Germany, Japan or other countries that have better statistics? To the contrary. The same distrust to their respective CDC equates to more or less the same covid-19 results.
You think I am making this up?
Visit the Italian, Spanish and French media and public approval toward them. I did look it up. These same countries have the exact same distrust in their own CDC.
Still do not believe me? Go ahead visit the following websites: do not worry you can select the country of your choice.

Eric does not believe in multiple strains?
1.

2. Now this

Again, could we have done or be doing better?
Without a doubt YES. In early March the cdc, who and fauci said that wearing a mask did not have any benefits.
I will ask you this. How destructive was this statement?
On a personal level, you bet your …that I wear a mask daily and every time that I am outside.
Kids going to parties while in college or in their home town?
Are you going to have a nationwide curfew? Then why in the world are we allowing demonstrations? You can’t have it both ways.
Instead of bickering and pointing the finger at this individual or another we ought to actually work together.
We are in an election year. What benefits doe we have to make this virus a political issue? Case in point:
California now has the highest rate. Does that mean that the CA Governor needs to resign?
This is not a political issue and it never should have been.
Working together?
Federal mandate to wear a mask outside? I am all for it but here is the difficulty to enforce it:
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10530#:~:text=disease%2C%20the%20CDC—as%20a,to%20independently%20enforce%20such%20orders.&text=This%20landscape%20means%20that%2C%20depending,mechanism%20suitable%20to%20enforce%20it.
JV you summed it up
“I think Americans have “fight the system” mentality baked in. I mean, this country was born out of protests and revolt from England.”
We are indeed our worst enemy regardless of political affiliation.
I will come back now to my first point.
Should china be made accountable?
I will answer this question with the following questions.
How many like SARS virus have we had in the last twenty years?
Can we trust china that this will not happen again?
Why has china still not allowed foreign scientists to the Wuhan labs?
Even if this was an accident china has no rights to not let scientists in their lab. Every single human being that has passed or is suffering from this virus deserve these visits. I hope we can at least still agree on this.

44

This is on point. Individualistic American mindsets basically set us up to fail with regards to COVID. It’s ingrained in us at this point. We live in a society where things come relatively easy compared to other places in the world, and problems largely solve themselves. As such, we don’t know what real sacrifice is anymore. When our biggest problems are first world problems, we become mentally frail in light of a legitimate crisis because we can’t comprehend that such a thing could be real…so we deflect. We feel that we are entitled to personal freedom, but have no sense of social responsibility because we’ve never had to rely on others the way people in other parts of the world do.

If COVID were college football, we’re the ones with the mindsets of UT…all the resources in the world, but we fail because of our entitled mindsets and don’t want to put the work and sacrifice in. Everyone else has the scrappy mentality of UH.

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45

Reasonable question. Explain and justify do not mean the same thing I do think explaining is helpful, but I am not justifying anything as you seem to imply.

My issue is that it seems everyone is expecting the US to do the same things as South Korea (just an example) and get equal or better results. By assuming people will respond the same way, there is a mistake being made.

People in S Korea are more like minded (I don’t care about skin color or genetics) as a whole and used to doing as their govt says. That is very different than the people in the US. There are many groups that are individually minded, others are specifically family oriented, others more do what the govt says, others are how can they profit, etc… probably dozens of more types of groups.

The govt telling people what to do will only be successful with some groups. Instead I would have suggested a multi avenue approach - consistent state guidelines (which we did not have) for those that follow, bring in the American “We can do this together” as opposed to orders which affects other groups, , Make it cool like a movement (notice the young crowd all joined in on George Floyd), etc…

Find the ways to get the people to help each other instead of demand everyone wear a mask. (Yes, masks help and should be worn) There needed to be different avenues for different groups.

The US will not get the same results as a strong dominant govt state, and expecting that is a foolish and unrealistic goal that will make matters worse not better - hence all the media and political infighting.

America will not be #1 in everything, there are trade offs. Turning America into South Korea is not the answer. Find the American solution is important and accepting what we can do with the societies that we have to be successful.

46

PS. The virus does care about sociological constructs.

It likes groups of people that feel they should be able to gather together, whether because they are individuls allowed to party, or because they feel they should be able to have a family gathering, or their society leads them to believe they are young and indestructible.

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47

KILL ALL THE BATS!!! AND THE PANGOLINS!!! What did they ever do for us anyways, besides eating mosquitoes and providing the base for a delicious soup?

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48

That ain’t funny Timmy. The Chinese dictatorship is responsible for this not the Chinese population. Don’t try to make it another issue.

49

Here’s the thing I don’t disagree you about China overall, however I certainly think that at this particular moment it’s kind of like being in 1943 demanding the Japanese be held accountable, while they are marching through the streets of LA and San Fransisco, and we never actually bothered to show up.

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50

There isn’t anybody who disagrees China should be held responsible. There are some dummies who think all is to blame on them though. We will likely still hear the same thing from them this time next year if the virus is still killing 1000+ a day. The US failed completely with the virus. We are currently the worst developed country in the world in regards to the virus. Not sure how China is to blame for that part.

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51

I’m glad this isn’t a political forum, there would be a lot to debate/correct in this post

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52

The South Korea comparison is made often because the two countries had first case on the same day and then the path’s diverge significantly. Additionally, S Korea is a strong democracy in contrast to China, which was the other comparable at the time. It is a demonstration of what could have happened here. The reasons for divergence are of course, part of the discussion.

My response is that the reason we are where we are is that people DID follow what the government told them. The government told them it was under control. Then the government told them it was also a hoax. It persists to this day calling it an election hoax. The government told them it would disappear magically. It still does. The government told people not to mask. It continues to this day to never wear masks in public by any of the highest ranking members and seems to discourage mask wearing as a sign of toughness, ruggedness, or some other desirable trait. The government has indicated no need for social distancing. The government has sold HCQ as a miracle drug, when it is anything but. If the government said the right things and people listened as closely as they have to the wrong things they have said, we wouldn’t have to have this conversation.

I would prefer just a strong message from the top to do the right things. We cannot say that the US populace would not wear masks because of individualism. We don’t know if they would since wearing a mask was made into some sort of political statement, where it still resides.

Again, I’m not expecting the same results as anyone, but that doesnt mean we can’t compare. We are far from any country that has had an organized response, “strong,dominant govt state” or otherwise.

I don’t expect the US to be #1 in anything. But I want it to constantly try to be, particularly when stakes are as high. We haven’t been trying and still aren’t aren’t doing little more than waiting for everyone to become numb to 1000 deaths a day.

Totally agree. It is very good at spread.

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53

Nope it doesn’t. But sociological constructs determine how a group of people will cope with the virus and the measures that are necessary to control the spread. This is where the US is set up to spread the disease like wildfire because so many people resist social distancing measures and masks.

Does not mean strong authoritarian governments are necessary though…just the a mindset of social responsibility. Japan, Korea, and Germany do not have authoritarian governments and they have things pretty well under control after having some initial outbreaks

54

Ok, you shared a lot and there is a lot to unpack. You wanted a reply.

I will say, it is tough when you keep calling it the Chinese virus…everyone I am friends with who uses that term for it has strong political opinions and biased tied to it…that said.

Yes, it came from China. Yes, they are culpable but how that is enforced is a whole different issue. This has exposed way more vulnerabilities in our system. Our economies are interwoven with China. We get quality products at a cheap price but to get that we look away at the human rights violations. We rationalize. I think you want to go down the supply chain, trade practices…etc… the American consumer wants to pay a little and get a lot. But let’s not conflate issues…I will likely agree with you on many of those points. The first thing that comes to mind is we have most of our PPE made overseas…we can go down the line…but that is a different point.

If this was the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic under your premise the US should be held accountable, it is believed that it originated in Kansas.

“In 1918 the United States was involved in World War I, but was also dealing with the outbreak of a deadly influenza epidemic. The first cases of the outbreak were recorded in Haskell County, Kansas, and Fort Riley, Kansas, where young men were being hospitalized for severe flu -like symptoms.

There is no proof it was created or modified in a lab, there is strong data saying it was not. Yes, I am skeptical about Chinese data, just like I am of the Russian vaccine.

The banning of flights from China was a hollow attempt that was a bit late. Even after the ban 40k people came in from China, they just had to do it via another country.

Politicians from both parties got so much wrong in the first few months…I believe what ever party that was in the administration would have bungled it at some level in the beginning. But continued mistakes is tough to accept.

Truman said “The buck stops here”. What have we heard “it’s a political hoax…it will disappear…I’m not responsible…it is what it is”.

Do any of those statements make your blood boil regardless of party? Or just a fierce party loyalty and unity, regardless if the message is wrong?

I hear a lot about the CDC and Fauci being wrong and the use of many of his quotes or comments out of context or missing the next thing said. Again, it was unpredented, mistakes were going to happen but we have to learn and adjust. The clip that keeps getting spread about not wearing masks is from March and it was consistent. By April, we knew more and the CDC revised its position and has been consistent in its messaging.

Does the amount of misinformation spread on social media not bother you? Foreign governments are finding it is easier to kill us with memes than other ways, we just keep taking it hook line and sinker.

Yes, most countries had conflicting information but they let experts and scientist take the lead, they were not constantly being undermined with bad information “anecdotal” evidence.

It’s a virus it will mutate, that is what happens. But even in the first line of the article you posted they are not significant variants of the strain.

Your right why did we allow demonstrations? Why did we allow armed anti mask folks protest to storm the Michigan capitol building? Many supported, cheered and encourage it. Plenty of blame to go around.

Though more and more evidence is pointing to bars and clubs, closed and confined spaces leading to spike and not really as a result of protests by either side.

My son got covid. He went to protests and didn’t get it there. He got it by bar hopping with his friends because they could in early July.

I naively believed we would rise to the occasion and beat this thing. We have everything to do it…but in the end we showed we have ‘quitters ’ mentality…beating this is not that hard…but we are selfish and self centered and lack the conviction to make sacrifices.

Just look at football, we want our football! Again we will rationalize and twist into pretzels so we can get what we want. It’s a business and lots of money is at stake and many are preying on naive overconfident college kids encouraging them to help us get what we want.

We seem to learn little every time things go wrong.

We saw what happened when we opened up too soon.

We saw what happened in GA that was first at physically opening schools

We saw what happened at UNC and ND, it will happen at other schools.

But, “we got this” for football at the HS and college level, what could go wrong?

The economic damage of our collective “this is hard” but we will sort of pretend to try is the real threat. We are caught somewhere between trying and the Sweden model. I don’t agree with the Sweden plan but it’s a plan, we don’t have one so we will just drift along, it’s is like a death by a thousand cuts.

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55

A couple of points:

Chinese virus and strong political ties to it?
It came from china right?
The Wuhan province is not located near the Woodlands is it?
Don’t agree? Open your labs to the world.
To this day 8/19/2020 these same labs are closed to the “free world”
Why wouldn’t they open their labs?
Do they have something to hide?
Can a COVID-19 like virus happen again? You decide.

This is why I call it the Chinese virus. The Chinese dictatorship created it. Here is how. I invite everyone to watch the following video. I will add that it has a “special” connection to all of us. You will know why very shortly.

Spanish flu originated in America?

When did America enter WWI?

Why Did the US Enter World War I?.

Yes, April 6, 1917. The Spanish flu was first detected in 1918 and was likely “brought” over by American soldiers.

I do agree with you that our society “questions everything” We politicize every event that comes our way. United we are not and have not been for decades now. We question someone’s political ideals in the midst of a pandemic. How constructive is it to think and act that way? I will write it again. The media made it a political issue. We gotta ask ourselves this question. What benefit are we getting by making this a political issue?

You brought up the “quitters” mentality. This is where I strongly disagree with you. America has shown throughout history that it is indeed the greatest nation on earth. We will overcome this disease I am 100% convinced of it.

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I agree with this statement, but it also shows some of the issues.

Like most people, they take one part of a statement and make a point around it. It is not just the govt but the people’s mindset of following govt. All three countries have a general population that follow the govt and have a generally uniform way of doing it. That is unlike the many different groups in the US. Hence the need for the US to approach the problem from many different angles, not just one for everybody.

57

I will try to discuss some of the sections here from your reply. The type of govt is not the main issue, part yes. (Part because a dicatatorship or communist can just shoot you for not following orders) Even with a democracy, South Koreans are used to following govt directives. The people in S Korea are almost all the same cultural mindset so it makes it easier for one order or leadership style to get agreement from everyone. The US is the ONLY country with such a large amount of diverse mindsets. Thus anyone expecting something done in a country like S Korea to work here is a fool, and setting standards of success around such a model is a waste of time and a hinderance to getting real results.

To clarify as well, this is focused on the general population and media in particular, not individuals on this board. I find most people here to be open to intelligent discussion even with people who have completely different approaches like me…

58

No, I get it and I don’t disagree. But with this situation we won’t know if the prediction that the south Korean measures wouldwork here as it did there is true or not because our government literally did the opposite of what the South Korean government did.

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None of your response counters what I said. It just goes to say the standard govt messed up. I don’t disagree. However you missed out on that the govt needed to give multiple targeted responses to appeal to specific groups. They did say the right things just not necessarily to the right people.

Here we also hit on different issues still related to different mindsets in the US. When you say govt, I am guessing you mean federal. I big part of the US is state vs federal gov

Plus some of your statements are not correct. I recall many statements about social distancing. Just because people didn’t follow them, does not mean they were not said. (at many govt levels)

HCQ is not a miracle drug, but it works in specific instances within the process.

I assume by govt not wearing mask you mean Trump. He sets a bad example yes, but he is also tested daily so if he does not have it, the mask does not affect anything.

The govt (by that I mean Trump) also did not give many early directives and allowed state govts to set guidelines appropriate for their state. A smart move in my opinion as people in Texas are different than people in California. I refer people to the history of the US with all the discussions of states rights.

Still in the end, my point is that the govt did not communicate the right way to targeted audiences. You for example put a lot on the federal govt, I believe in state govt. Again still supports my original point, message needs to be targeted to the different groups of people in the US. One message does not work here.

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Thanks for the Germany input I did not want to make the list to long and just missed them.