It wasn’t huge numbers of Utah fans, but TCU fans wanting to see the game. There were some huge rivalry games between the two schools at the time in the MWC. Both in Fort Worth and Utah.
So I was told to swing by. I’m gonna give an opinion for 16 then 20, then read through the thread and be educated by both the existing posts and replies.
16 teams
4x4Team Pods/No Division
North
Cincinnati
Colorado
Iowa State
West Virginia
West
BYU
Kansas
Kansas State
Utah
Southwest
Arizona
ASU
Baylor
Tech
Gulf Coast
Houston
Oklahoma State
TCU
UCF
Each has a premier football brand, with at least one more hugely competitive, sometimes as many as 2 hugely competitive. It is pretty regional, but also doesn’t force pods to be too regional. I don’t want to play ASU, BYU, Utah every year. I want to play Tech. I want to play Baylor. I don’t want to be defined by previous conference affiliation.
You play your pod every year in football. And then play 2 from each other pod. That’s 9 games. Every 2 years you’ve played everyone, every 4 years you’ve played everyone home/home.
That’s my ideal.
20-Team
North
Cincinnati
Louisville*
Pittsburgh*
UConn*
West Virginia
BYU
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Utah
South
Arizona
ASU
Baylor
Colorado
Tech
Georgia Tech (or Miami/NC State)
Houston
Oklahoma State
TCU
UCF
With divisions, you always play your 9 Divisional opponents. South is loaded, but North has upside with Louisville, Pittsburgh joining Cincinnati, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas State
You play 2 or 3 non-Conference, then top-2 from each division plays a 4-team Playoff for the Conference Title.
That’s 11 to 13 games, plus whatever Bowl or CFP made.
You could also do this “East vs West” and try to split the Texas schools 50/50. But to me that is a more difficult split than North/South
If we go 24, it may have to be 2 12-team divisions with only 1 Non-Conference.
Hopefully 24 would include SDSU for the West, maybe even a second Western school, though if not Stanford, not sure who.
Overall, this is my jumping off point, but, again, I don’t know regional and forever rivalries or history so don’t tar and feather me just yet. Haha
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I just feel like that texas grouping is too hard to pass up.
That’s fair.
You missed the TCU-Baylor rivalry. One of the longest in the nation and longer than Utah-BYU or Az-Az St.
Ok. So, swap Houston for Baylor in any division? Does that fix it?
That rivalry, yes.
Interesting overall to see an outsider perspective on the break downs.
edit: outsider to mean non-Texas/SWC.
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I hope a few BYU coog fans chip in, I’m sure they’d love to keep UH
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I knew what you meant. I am an outsider as far as all the nuance to your conference/regional rivalries and scheduling.
For the record, UofA/ASU is 124 years old and has claim to the oldest rivalry trophy in Football, the Territorial Cup. If politics hadn’t interrupted it Pre-WW2, it’s up there with the longest played rivalries.
That said, I hate ASU and had hoped to watch them drown rather than be saved by the Big12! Haha
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Your 16 team scenario is nice. I like it.
Your 20 team scenario is kind of out there. The problem I see with is sticking with playing within your division could lead to controversy in a competitively unbalanced year.
Let’s say Cincinnati, Pitt, and Utah were all jockeying for position in one division. All of them had one loss to each other and finished the season with 10-2 records with one loss in conference. Utah lost to Cincy, Cincy lost to Pitt, and Pitt lost to Utah.
In the other division, let’s say Baylor ran the table and everyone else had 3 or more losses in conference. That means the second place team in the south division is getting in over a better team in the north.
Or are they? How would you know? What if the south division was just highly competitive and the north division was top heavy? Too many questions are asked heading into conference championship week and a fanbase feels left out.
Nope, I’m not joking. I’d much rather UH play TCU/OSU/BYU/Tech/etc than Iowa state…and if by not playing Iowa state we get to play those other teams more often, that seems good to me.
I would also rather watch KSU play the Big8 teams more often than watching KSU play every team in the conference every 2 years.
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I mean if you’re a TV executive who has no opinion on the matter (because that’s who will really decide the matchups anyway) You would immediately say no breaking up of in state schools because those are literally natural rivalries.
I think your unlikely but possible scenario is remedied by rewarding strength of schedule putting emphasis on Non-Conference, or, overall Point Differential.
Divisions are difficult, for sure. But you can’t blow it up on an outlier of a scenario when majority seasons it will work ideally. Again, just swapping Houston for Baylor so the TCU/Baylor rivalry is maintained.
16 teams is too many teams to have 2 divisions. Then you go too long without playing teams in the opposite division>. have 3 permanent rivals, whether you call them pods or whatever. Then you play every team home and away at least once every 4 years. Send Colorado with the 3 schools in the east. If they don’t like it they can go back to the PAC4
I didn’t have divisions for the 16 teams. I had Pods where you always play the 3 in your pod, then play 2 games vs the other 3 pods, which means you’ve played everyone every 2 years, and played every home/home every 4 years.
I did have Divisions for 20 teams, because it aligns nicely for 9 Conference games.
Perhaps, rather than Non-Conference, you have 2 Non-Division games where in addition to playing your 9 Divisional, you also play 2 from the other division. That’s 11 games, plus 1 Non-Conference, plus the Conference Tournament, plus Bowl. That’s gonna be pushing 15 games.
You can do regional pods for 20 teams.
North
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pittsburgh
UConn (or Va Tech)
West Virginia
West
BYU
Kansas
Kansas State
Utah
Iowa State
Southwest
Arizona
ASU
Colorado
Houston
Tech
South
Baylor
Ga Tech (or Miami or NC State)
Oklahoma State
TCU
UCF
You play your Pod, then play one other pod every year for 9 games. Every 3 years you’ve played everyone, ever 6 years you’ve played everyone Home/Home.
I’d still like SDSU added if expanded to 20, but that grouping I said above works well. So, maybe SDSU is added if expansion goes to 24.
Lets pump the brakes on hypotheticals, no doubt pods will be necessary at that point. Saudi arabia will own 62% share of ncaa and the entire league will be apple service
Yeah, the 5-team pods where you play your regional pod yearly and one other pod yearly allows for playing entire Conference every 3 years. That is pretty ideal. Now just creating a rivalry focused, but balanced Pod System.
And I’d much rather Iowa St fans come here once every four years and pack the visitor section like they do at all their conference games. I also want to go to Ames, Iowa for a weekend and watch us play in a sold out stadium on Saturday and head over to the Field of Dreams on Sunday.
We are simply going to have to disagree. Just being in the same state does not mean there will be higher ratings for the games to appease a TV exec. Ratings for TV execs come from winning teams playing for titles regardless of geography.
Last year, TCU-Iowa St had over 4.3 million viewers about the exact same as TCU-Baylor (both on FOX). TCU-Tech (also FOX but a few weeks earlier before TCU was really seen as a real CFP contender) only 2.5 million. in-state did not help and TCU has more of a rivalry with Tech than Iowa St.
Interesting and had to do some quick research. Both ASU-UofA and TCU-BU both first played in 1899 according to the site I checked. Seems like WWII interrupted your series and the breakup of the SWC ours. Also BU-TCU do not have a true trophy for the game that I know of so no competition for the Territorial Cup.
Of note, the Kansas - K st rivalry has the most played games in the Big 12 though they did not start until 1902.
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