FSU Starting Process to Leave ACC

Football
221

Nebraska got kicked out of the AAU because they simply were not competing to PEER universities

again if anyone on this forum had a remote idea of how the AAU evaluates universities they would understand why some are in and some are not…because the AAU evaluates based on PEERS and they evaluate based on a mission

Nebraska was simply not performing to a level that matched their peers…as for the medical school there was ZERO that prevented Nebraska from merging that medical school under the main campus (just as aggy has done about 12 years ago merging all of their state wide medical programs under college Station)

but the problem with that for Nebraska is that would have changed Nebraska from being evaluated as a public university in a state with only 3 public universities (and one under 5,000 students) and no medical school to one that has a medical school…and the Nebraska medical school is not highly productive in research even for a medical school in a small state. Thus merging that medical school under the main campus would have made the evaluation criteria and the peer comparisons that much worse for Nebraska

the other main problem with Nebraska is they never took their statutory land grant funding and used it t build a major life sciences component as aggy, penn state, Florida, AU, Cal, Cornell, Michigan State, Ohio State and others did…they did not leverage that funding and those faculty they could hire with that funding to push beyond that they were first hired to do…many others did

In the case of Oregon they are a 23,000 student university so they are half the size of UH, but the AAU will evaluate based on the research productivity of the faculty members themselves not just based on bulk research…they are not going to have a member that does $400,000,000 in research with 150,000 students and 6,500 faculty members because that is only $61,500 per faculty member in research…as compared to a university that has 1,100 faculty members and an enrollment of 9,000 students and does $250,000,000 million in research ($227,000 per faculty member)

they are not going to have schools with horrible student to faculty ratios and low per faculty productivity as members that is not how it works

they also look at the mission of the school…in a state with 34+ public universities they evaluate those members differently than in a place with 7 public universities or 3 public universities (like Iowa and Arizona)

they look at the stature of the faculty members and they have a preference for places that produce graduates that go on to win National Academy membership (and similar) and places that have faculty that gain National Academy membership while working at that university…they are less impressed by places that just go money whip existing National Academy members to move to their university…that only proves they can come up with some money to hire someone it does not prove they have a long term environment that produces and fosters that type of research faculty or graduates

so yes when you toss out raw numbers and leave out the context of what the AAU looks at you do need to be told how it actually works unless you want to sit around bewildered forever as to why certain things happen and others do not

in the case of Oregon with no agricultural research component (that gains large amount of COMPETITIVE grants), and no engineering, and no medical school I am fairly certain they have been told by the AAU to improve or ship out, but the AAU gives a decade or more of warning (as they did for Nebraska and Syracuse) and in the case of Oregon their $500,000,000 donation from fill night and another $500,000,000 in funding for a life sciences campus they are doing enough to stay in for now and probably for a while

but they will probably have to step things up considerably in the future to stay in because not having a medical, ag, or engineering college is not the fault of the AAU that is the issue for Oregon to deal with…but as long as the “peers” out there are not catching up to and passing them they will be OK and as long as they can keep faculty research productivity and student metrics high they will be OK

2 Likes
222

And that’s how TV Networks lose money. If they have more Power conference teams playing, they can charge a premium fee for commercials which makes the Networks a lot of money but if they have G5s and FCS games, they can’t charge that much.

If there are less power conference teams to air, Networks will lose money.

223

100% agree. We as U of H have to have AAU as our MAIN goal. Mrs. Khator has made it clear that it is her primary goal before she retires. I am 100% confident she will guide us there.
FSU joining the big10 as a non AAU member is 100% realistic. Rules are there to be broken. FSU is a huge football brand.

2 Likes
224

What if they signed it under false or fraudulent pretenses?

That’s part of what this lawsuit is about.

They are saying that the ACC insisted that if everyone didn’t sign this long GOR, then ESPN wouldn’t give them a good media deal, which, they imply, was FALSE based on what other conferences have done with ESPN, and, in fact, was really just a part of the conference’s own ploy to to keep everyone around, rather than maximize the conference’s opportunities for revenues and championships, which the ACC by laws require.

And of course, they allege that that fraud and failure have cost FSU and other members money and championship opportunities.

225

Person needs another person in his life. Sad!

7 Likes
226

Here is what SMU really wants to do:

b*** slap slapping GIF

227

Could somebody please give me the Reader’s Digest condensed version of Person’s manifesto?

:laughing:

4 Likes
228

this is a weak lawsuit based on the fact that Maryland leaving and the subsequent increase in exit fees was in 2012…and the ACC and ESPN extended their existing contract and agreed to a conference network in 2016

FSU had the chance to leave the ACC for the Big 12 and their BOR members openly discussed that at the same time as Maryland was leaving…and they they were “happy”…FSU had a chance to vote to not extend the media rights deal that was set to end in 2026-27, but the ACC voted to start a conference network (an action to bring them more revenues) in 2016 and extended their media deal out to 20 years at that time

this is the same thing the SEC SEC SEC did with their tier 2 and tier 3 rights to get a network…the difference is the SEC SEC SEC still had their tier one rights to sell one more time

the extension of the ACC media deal has nothing to do with Maryland leaving it was done 4 years after that and it was done to gain a conference network to “bring in additional revenues” (and laughingly said to increase exposure which is where it has really failed and will fail more in the future as it gets dropped by cable MSOs)

229

Interesting. Lawsuit seeking to get clarification on enforceability by August 14, 2024 since August 15, 2024 is the last day for them to give notice that they are leaving for the 2025-26 school year.

Makes a lot of “no consideration” arguments for some of the deals the ACC made with ESPN as well as the GOR and penalty clauses.

230

Ha, yeah it seems so appropriate, doesn’t it? Calhoun was a scumbag traitor and terrible all-around human being.

BTW - Clemson is actually named after Calhoun’s son-in-law, Thomas Green Clemson, a Philadelphia-born Agricultural Scientist and Quaker, who served in the Confederate army.

Strange brew indeed.

231

Gotcha. Makes sense.

232

They’re dragging ESPN through the mud too so no way they get an invite from the SEC.

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1738217634800226537?t=ns2ngriIqrJh9vCmJ0wK2w&s=19

Screenshot_20231222_120718
Screenshot_20231222_1207181440×881 183 KB

1 Like
233

Man if FSU joins the Big 12, that would probably get every single team a raise

Plus it would entice other schools to join and really solidify this conference

Doubt it happens though. I think FSU wants in on the B1G action

5 Likes
234

He rather spend his time on Coogfans telling us how much UH sucks than to find a companion.

1 Like
235

LOL.

Yeah!

Basically!!!

1 Like
236

The lawsuit also implies a sort of fraud by omission:

Quote: For reasons never explained to FLORIDA STATE, the 2016 ACC Tier I Agreement
granted ESPN a unilateral option to extend that Agreement with its already out-of-market rates
an additional nine years beyond its expiration on June 30, 2027, or until 2036 (the “Unilateral
ESPN Nine-Year Option”).

Quote: As a result, although the 2016 ACC Tier I Agreement locked down the ACC
members for an unheard of 24 years (through 2036) at Tier I rates negotiated in 2012 (capped at
4.5% annual growth), which rendered the ACC unable to “market” its media rights for the period
from 2027 to 2036, the Unilateral ESPN Nine-Year Option left ESPN free to walk away from the
ACC (even at those below market rates) during that same nine year period.

Quote: To make matters worse, in advance, the ACC duped its members into extending the
draconian Grant-of-Rights for the same nine year period, from 2027 through 2036, on the grounds
it was the supposed mandatory pre-condition for the privilege of being bound to the 2016 ESPN
Agreements.

2 Likes
237

FSU is not close to AAU status. They don’t have an engineering program (they share one with FAMU) and their professional schools are not particularly highly-rated.

The reason FSUs rankings are so high is because USNWR’s formula heavily weights acceptance rates, and like UF, UCF and USF, because FSU is a public university in FL, FL students get free tuition if they meet certain criteria. Thus, they get a crap ton of applications every year. It is the same reason UGA, Ga Tech in GA and the Texas schools (UT, TAMU, UH particularly) have seen their rankings rise (although in TX it is because of the top 10 percent rule).

That is why you should judge college rankings by outcomes, not the incoming class, which is really just measuring your applicant’s socio-economic situation.

The AAU measures by outcomes; that is why schools that are lower ranked by USNWR standards are in there (Oregon, Iowa, Penn State, CU-Boulder, Kansas, Indiana, etc.) while schools like Temple, UConn, Clemson, FSU, and Georgetown, which USNWR ranks highly, are not.

1 Like
238

And of course, the new Big 12 media deal (as well as new SEC and B1G media deals) is presented as PROOF of what the ACC COULD have done if it were doing its fiduciary duty to its members, rather than defrauding its members and cheating them out of revenues that they COULD have had in the interest of self-preservation:

Quote: 85. Notwithstanding the loss of its two signature members (the University of Texas and
Oklahoma University) (see, ¶¶ 99, 100 ), the Big 12 negotiated a new Tier I agreement with ESPN
and Fox Sports last year that pays it members substantially more annually than is paid to ACC
members. That deficit will grow an additional $11 million per annum per member in just two
19
years. This new agreement expires five years before the 2016 ACC Tier I Agreement, the payment
structure of which was last negotiated in 2012.
86. In 2023, the Big Ten re-negotiated its Tier I media rights agreement, making that
agreement far more lucrative than that of the ACC. The new Big Ten agreement expires in 2030,
six years before that of the ACC.
87. This year, the SEC again re-negotiated its more lucrative 2020 Tier I Agreement
with ESPN. That new SEC-ESPN agreement expires in 2034, two years before that of the ACC.
88. The ACC now stacks up this way when comparing the revenues being provided per
member per year to the Big Ten and SEC:
89. Since 2012, the SEC, the Big Ten and the Big 12 will each have had at least two (if
not three) bites at the Tier I media rights apple with television networks before the ACC gets its
first in 2036, and these conferences have used those opportunities to negotiate better terms to widen
the gap between the compensation their members receive for their media rights and the
compensation ACC members receive for their media rights. See, ¶ 88.

239

That is limp-wristed argument on the part of FSU, and I don’t see how that flies, to be honest.

Who is in charge of the ACC? Who hires the guys who made the deal? The member schools! At the time it was signed, it was the largest deal in the market. The ACC traded the possibility of increased revenues in the short term by going for a longer term deal and locking in a fixed rate or return. It is the risk of long term deals, and why most people with common sense don’t do them.

Example - Ronald Acuna signed a 10 year 120M deal 4 years ago when we was a 20 year old ROY.
He just had a 40/40 season and was a unanimous MVP. He sees Ohtani get $700M. How do you think Acuna felt in 2019? How do you think he feels now? Acuna should’ve had a better agent; similarly, the ACC (and by extension, FSU) should have bet on themselves. However, their fear of losing UNC, UVA and Ga Tech to the BIG is what drove this. After Maryland left, the ACC saw the writing on the wall and realized that (i) CFB ruled the roost and (ii) as a CBB conference, it was at a disadvantage. Ironically, the ACC would go on to win three national titles after the Maryland departure. However, the ACC is still not a power conference when it comes to CFB, and in today’s college sports landscape, that puts it at a disadvantage, money wise.

I still say that if FSU actually wanted to make a difference, it should have went after ESPN; that is the only way this gets fixed. Otherwise, the issues will continue.

2 Likes
240

I agree the ACC teams signed an incredibly crap deal and that’s their fault, but I don’t think they expected the entire landscape of CFB to change so drastically